What if stun durations were reduced ?

[Silent Majority]

Secs max cap is like 15? Ketamine is like 2 minutes.

I think 15 is the longest any stun should last imho. It feels right.

[The Specimen]

Secs max cap is like 15? Ketamine is like 2 minutes.

I think 15 is the longest any stun should last imho. It feels right.

I feel like 10 is enough but I second this opinion. In that time you have more than enough to do whatever you want with the downed person. Also it maybe promotes using the armory for more than just nuke ops which is the only time we usually see it opened on classic at least, no clue about rp.

[Mouse]

Once again I bring up NOOT's suggestion that injuring stunned people should decrease the stun timer.

[Kotlol]

Once again I bring up NOOT's suggestion that injuring stunned people should decrease the stun timer.

This old suggestion I still 100% support.
As stun should be stun.. but if you use stun in combination with lethal damage? That should decrease stun time.
Though this is more a direct nerf to antags then it is security.

But I like to point out that flat decreasing the stun timer, will make security less able to deal with crowds. Wich means more nades and such.
And while people want more armory moments... going lethal as security is suppose to be rare.

[Cal]

Once again I bring up NOOT's suggestion that injuring stunned people should decrease the stun timer.

* Spaces you*

[jckrfc03]

going lethal as security is suppose to be rare.

 
Sec cant really go "lethal" thats one of the problems with stuns since sec have literally 0 starting alternatives to stuns, they are railroaded into using stuns and as such the antags only have one thing to fight against which leads to antags being pushed down the road of "you have to prep for stuns!!", "just bring a 2nd person!" and "just dont run!". If sec were able to actually use and or recieve an alternative to stun baton and one of three taser types then there would be less of an issue. However this would bring issues of its own also. its probably best to give sec some form of weapon that isnt just 30 second timeout gun and stick.

[Cheffie]

The duration is needed in case security has to deal with mobs. It's so you don't want to fight security and have to outsmart em.

You don't need 30 second stuns to deal with mobs of people, security gets flashbangs and crowd control grenades for that. and if you get mobbed as security you should be having a hard time.

In classic they don't have time for this. Antags spawn fast.. live fast... and security has to go twice as fast.

As a security main and HoS who plays on classic, you seem to have a few misconceptions about security on classic.
Most of the time rounds are pretty slow and there aren't really more antags flowing in than in RP I imagine.

Since security with alternatives will make em murder hobo's on classic.

As above, security on classic do not often kill antagonists without good reason.

Security will still be able to handcuff off a reduced stun and even if they did start using lethals on slippery antags, lethals are bad compared to stun and mostly reserved for late into the round or especially strong antagonists such as wizards.

So what I 'recommend' is two stun mechanics.
"Soft stun"
"Hard Stun"

This is definitely a good idea for future but for now just capping the stun time will suffice.
Softstun/Hardstun will require significant rework of stuns on goon as a whole and will be a big undertaking.

Personally I think those in soft stun should be able to use items as well perhaps with some limitations (one hand only, slow pickup, accuracy debuff?) until they get hit by another stun weapon to hard stun them.

The stunned and weakened statuses already in the game would work for this Soft/hard stun idea with stunned being hard stun and weakened being soft.
Weakened just forcing you prone.
Stunned acting as it is now.

[nefarious6th]

i'll throw in my 2c, i don't think stuns need a change to 10 seconds cap from 30 seconds. i could get behind 20 maybe, since that's been proposed and tested in the past, but not 10.

sometimes you do need 30 seconds. within the past week i had to use flashes to keep someone down long enough to get them to a sec checkpoint where i could cuff them because of slowdown from also dragging a dying person to the medbooth on donut3/whatever. wasnt a role that has cuffs and whatnot, just two flashes. the person managed to get up one time in the midst of that, right when I got to the medbooth and asked the person there to help. i needed the 30 second stun duration in that scenario.

there's been other times on rp dealing with murderous metagrudge grief-mobs as hos alone where i've also needed the long duration to just be able to safely get the fuck away. i get that anything that functions to control grief mobs on RP will also control revs on classic, and that's a difficult line to find the balance of.

[DummySian]

I agree with nefarious on that one, 20-30 is completely fine, but not below that.
Lethals? Sure, but its very obvious that people prefer being detained over being outright killed.
Antags like lings will be almost impossible to deal with if stun gets decreased to 10 unless you constantly hit them with stun baton while trying to shove them in portabrig and lings are already a pain to deal with even with current stuns.
Secoffs still get easily mobbed by 2-3 people even with 30 second stuns (from my experience of playing both hos and secoff before i even got the whitelist, secoffs are really easy to kill and its even easier now that you dont even have an idea where they are dying or if they are even dying at all). I'm not even talking about revs where secoffs can get mobbed by over 5 people.
And if you really want secoffs to have a lethal option make a gun that deals damage but it cant damage after a certain point.
And Stun decreasing if you recieve damage seems like not a really bad idea.

[Glamurio]

Just chiming in on the bandwagon, 10 seconds seem too low, 30 seem a bit high, I could get behind a reduction to 20. There's no need to drastically change the system and risk things turning out worse, I'd be hard-pressed to say that 20 seconds would change all too much, but at the very least it's less overall time of not being able to talk.

I'm personally vehemently against Security Officers receives much in the name of lethals. What's in the armory is enough for emergencies, beyond that it often seems excessive to kill on sight anyhow, but this might be more of an opinionated view. An idea I do like that has been mentioned is for there to be a longer period of being slowed and slugging along before being knocked prone out right. Perhaps even a fairly harsh slow. That would mean it's still most likely over for the escapee, but they can still do a last hail mary attempt at something crazy before being cuffed.

[The Specimen]

It's crazy how much traction this generated, didn't expect this much feedback. Seems like a very relevant topic then!

I dislike the fact that armory is used almost exclusively for nuke ops on classic and from my experience. The tools there are there for a purpose. I find it a shame that we don't use them except in practically one game mode. My counter argument for the 30 second stun has been stated before. I share the similar idea with Cheffie where 10 seconds may be low, but cuffing is 2 seconds. You can cuff people and render them helpless in no time. As for the antagonist specific cases, I agree there might need to be some big new tool or something perhaps a portabrig remote for every sec off ( though I believe it exists on pda ) or making the stun 10 seconds capped but reducing the PSU usage to something less than 25 per use. ( 10 or something ? ) these are just thoughts floating about.

It's cool to see such diverse opinions from both player bases though. Rp and Classic and a mix of the two. Would be cool to have even more weigh ins !

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Oh I forgot to mention that since cloning is readily available usually I don't usually see too much of a downside to have to use lethals if the situation calls for it then cloning the individual ! sorry kind of a P.S.

[Kotlol]

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Oh I forgot to mention that since cloning is readily available usually I don't usually see too much of a downside to have to use lethals if the situation calls for it then cloning the individual ! sorry kind of a P.S.

Since this was nerfed so doctors want to do more doctoring insted of dieing and cloning by having a "Failure state" that can be obnoxious.
I don't think relying on lethals as security is a good idea...

I do want "more situations" where the armory can be used, but maybe not by nerfing stuns, but allowing antags to contract or punish stun, forcing armory to be opened.

[Lord_earthfire]

I want just to say that if we talk about reducing stun time, always take stun resist into account. Maxed stun resist at 10 second maxcap stuns only stuns you for 2 seconds, which is far too low for batons and cuffs, but good for tasers to close the distance.

[Mouse]

Generally I think when people talk about reducing stun times they're talking about reducing the hard cap of 30s, which stun resist doesn't change.

[Lord_earthfire]

Oh ok, i misunderstood this then. I thought about single stuns, not the cap on stacking of stuns. Honestly didn't even knew it existed...