[MERGED PR] Nukeops commander selection prioritizes previous winners

[github_bot]

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About the PR
This pr changes the way nukie commander is rolled. If someone has won a former nukie round and has syndicate commander ticked, they will be put onto a list to where commanders could be pulled from. If that list is empty, the game will then make a list of anyone with syndicate commander ticked, if that list is still empty the game will pull from any nukie.


Why's this needed?
This helps to ensure that nuclear commanders have a baseline of knowledge regarding nuclear rounds. This should mean that nukie commanders are on average more qualified to lead nukies.


Changelog

Code:

changelog
(u)Ikea
(*)The game now tries to award the commander role for nukeops to an operative who has previously won a nuclear round before picking any non-winner operatives.

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[deathrobotpunch]

Good idea makes sure noobs actually know how to play nukies

[Frolicsome Flufficorn]

This is a very good change. Very much for this

[BatElite]

The changelog isn't exactly clear, I thought it was going to be prioritising those with more wins rather than everyone who's won at all.

[According_tome]

I don't think worrying about competency in jobs for a 2 dimensional video game is necessary, especially in a game where incompetency can create awesome stories.

[Kotlol]

I don't think worrying about competency in jobs for a 2 dimensional video game is necessary, especially in a game where incompetency can create awesome stories.

Pretty much this.

[Frolicsome Flufficorn]

Ok can I just ask why RP players (who don't have nukies as a game mode) are complain about a gamemode that doesn't affect them what so ever. Its like me going to a RP discussion and saying my opinion from a classic POV. From my experience the amount of times a Nukie commander says "guys I have no idea what im doing its my first time as a nukie" and then proceeds to be a hinderance to the team, The nukie commander has some Items that can quite literally be a make or break for the team. having this PR means that the explicitly senior job for nukies is met with the experience it needs. Plus new players can quite literally still be a nukie so its not even preventing them from learning.

[According_tome]

Ok can I just ask why RP players (who don't have nukies as a game mode) are complain about a gamemode that doesn't affect them what so ever. Its like me going to a RP discussion and saying my opinion from a classic POV. From my experience the amount of times a Nukie commander says "guys I have no idea what im doing its my first time as a nukie" and then proceeds to be a hinderance to the team, The nukie commander has some Items that can quite literally be a make or break for the team. having this PR means that the explicitly senior job for nukies is met with the experience it needs. Plus new players can quite literally still be a nukie so its not even preventing them from learning.

I am a classic player who is just stating his opinion. I know what you mean by that but nukies work as a team and if they dont most of the time they fail anyway. If rolled commander is bad and a nukie is experienced he can share his experience with his teammate and NOT his leader. Since it is classic as you stated, nukeop commander has no real authority over anyone so I am not ok with it being locked to new players. I think this sort of competitive pattern is not good for a game where events matter much more than who robusts who.

[Cal]

Ok can I just ask why RP players (who don't have nukies as a game mode) are complain about a gamemode that doesn't affect them what so ever.

Because they play the same game as you. Yes, RP does occasionally (moreso depending on my mood) get nuclear rounds.

[Kotlol]

Ok can I just ask why RP players (who don't have nukies as a game mode) are complain about a gamemode that doesn't affect them what so ever.

Because they play the same game as you. Yes, RP does occasionally (moreso depending on my mood) get nuclear rounds.

Yep. Also RP players dip their toes in classic too.
Eitherway this is idea is similiar to "Allow players who don't get antag alot to get antag more often."

People will gameify it.

Anyhow let's disect this topic for realsies:
"Priority rule: Winner of Nukie round gets commander 1st in line"
It's not a bad idea. As long as they have it ticked. It;s an option.

But why would this be bad?
"This commander that won once, keeps getting commander and sucks at it. Only cause they had a good team, I would want to try commanding but they won't let us."

Second:
"Any nukie winners are more likely to become commander if ticked on. Thus INCREASING their chances to be a nukie as the commander. It rewards forcing the win to play nukie more. Thus the better get better."

Now let's compare to other commander roles.. AKA the heads of the station.
Only two heads are excluded from being picked as a newbie.
"Captain and Head of Security/NTSO."

Head Engineer, Medical Director, Research Director and Head of Personell are all available to anyone.

To unlock captain you have to played 20 rounds. Be it dead , win or loss.
To unlock Head of Security/NTSO you gotta go through a vetting process on the forums.

Okay.. so what would I change this suggestion to make it better then "Win a round."
Simple....
Either "Lock" Nukie Commander like the Captain with a "Have played 3 Nukie rounds as a Nukie"
Rather then: "Take any Nukie winner to command"

"But what if no one can be Nukie commander?"
Well there can be rounds without captains too no?

Eitherway... new players being commanders is fine. People just need to learn to hit the F3 or F1 button more often in these situations (Preferable Mentor help)

[Frolicsome Flufficorn]

Eitherway... new players being commanders is fine. People just need to learn to hit the F3 or F1 button more often in these situations (Preferable Mentor help)

Good argument. Lets also allow HoS to be played by new players. If they need to learn they can just F3 or F1 for help??? I mean its the same concept isnt it? (Yes I know the key differences is the amount of rounds that it affects like how HoS can potentially be every round and Nukie commander is only every Nukie round) but in terms of Power ability within the group be it sec of Nukies the commander has huge power to change how the Nukie round goes. Examples; Playing music which can give away the Nukies without even debating it with the rest of the nukies, Can use their uplink to call nuke which if they are new Ive seen a extreme amount of them not save the nuke from being taken away to the crusher despite having the nuke teleport. And they literally have the ability on high pop to force the entire team to deploy via fast deploy. So suggesting that new players have the ability of a high rank role is fine if your prepared to suggest that Using that logic HoS should be open to the public.

[DummySian]

Newbie players rolling nukie commander is such a pain honeslty.Yes some try their best, but when a commander never played nukie before and just tells the nukies to plant in specific NON-PLANT location because they dont even know you cant choose. They also do get extra stuff like making an annoucement or playing the music which can change the way round goes by A LOT. And even tho people say that on classic they have no authority..i actually see most of the nukies ask the commander what to do. This change will be for the better for sure.

[Kotlol]

Eitherway... new players being commanders is fine. People just need to learn to hit the F3 or F1 button more often in these situations (Preferable Mentor help)

Good argument. Lets also allow HoS to be played by new players. If they need to learn they can just F3 or F1 for help??? I mean its the same concept isnt it? (Yes I know the key differences is the amount of rounds that it affects like how HoS can potentially be every round and Nukie commander is only every Nukie round) but in terms of Power ability within the group be it sec of Nukies the commander has huge power to change how the Nukie round goes. Examples; Playing music which can give away the Nukies without even debating it with the rest of the nukies, Can use their uplink to call nuke which if they are new Ive seen a extreme amount of them not save the nuke from being taken away to the crusher despite having the nuke teleport. And they literally have the ability on high pop to force the entire team to deploy via fast deploy. So suggesting that new players have the ability of a high rank role is fine if your prepared to suggest that Using that logic HoS should be open to the public.

The difference is actualyl much simpler. HoS and Captain have high capacities of GRIEF.

While any head can "Rogue the AI for shits" The Captain has several things that can make rounds unfair for players if they side with antags.

HoS is even easier. Lawbringer = explosives.

But Nukie Commanders causing grief? That's fine since they are an antagonist. They are suppose to cause grief to have the station oppose to.

(Though captain being locked behind 20 rounds is still an odd one to me to this day...As HoP's can just make a captain's access ID and do as much damage as caps can do. If not more.)

Anyhow... how about gang leaders? Rev leaders? Salvager Commanders? Should they get the same treatment?

[DummySian]

Eitherway... new players being commanders is fine. People just need to learn to hit the F3 or F1 button more often in these situations (Preferable Mentor help)

Good argument. Lets also allow HoS to be played by new players. If they need to learn they can just F3 or F1 for help??? I mean its the same concept isnt it? (Yes I know the key differences is the amount of rounds that it affects like how HoS can potentially be every round and Nukie commander is only every Nukie round) but in terms of Power ability within the group be it sec of Nukies the commander has huge power to change how the Nukie round goes. Examples; Playing music which can give away the Nukies without even debating it with the rest of the nukies, Can use their uplink to call nuke which if they are new Ive seen a extreme amount of them not save the nuke from being taken away to the crusher despite having the nuke teleport. And they literally have the ability on high pop to force the entire team to deploy via fast deploy. So suggesting that new players have the ability of a high rank role is fine if your prepared to suggest that Using that logic HoS should be open to the public.

The difference is actualyl much simpler. HoS and Captain have high capacities of GRIEF.

While any head can "Rogue the AI for shits" The Captain has several things that can make rounds unfair for players if they side with antags.

HoS is even easier. Lawbringer = explosives.

But Nukie Commanders causing grief? That's fine since they are an antagonist. They are suppose to cause grief to have the station oppose to.

(Though captain being locked behind 20 rounds is still an odd one to me to this day...As HoP's can just make a captain's access ID and do as much damage as caps can do. If not more.)

Anyhow... how about gang leaders? Rev leaders? Salvager Commanders? Should they get the same treatment?

Why are you comparing hos and captain with nukie commander in terms of damaging the station and not their own team?
It has been said many times how commander can just ruin whatever their team was doing by using uplink items (or not even doing anything, like in situation where nuke gets stolen) or other stuff like announcements and music.

[Santa Shy]

Ok.....When you have commanders who don't know what they are doing and have to on multiple occasions have to be a commander since the tools given to commander are VERY important I would say in the special TC that the commander, IE THE NUKE TELEPORT. Locking Nukie commander to more experienced players RELATED TO NUKIES by total round count would be ideal since after a few rounds of nuke ops you already know the ins and out of it, Since it really boils down to just land on station and shoot people.

Nuke ops is a TEAM BASED ANTAG and having a inexperienced commander or one that's BRAND NEW NUKIE FIRST ROUND COMMANDER does a lot more harm than good to both the team and the brand new nuke op. since this is a CLASSIC ONLY ANTAG, YES RP gets it sometimes but here is the key word SOMETIMES and its an ADMIN GIMMICK, Classic is ALOT more rough depending on who you get so it can potentially be a very VERY rough first experience for some people. If a more experienced nuke op has to step up and make the plans and tell the commander what to do then we have a small problem here. I can not tell you how many times I've seen a nukie round where the commander is a BRAND NEW NUKIE and VERBALLY SAYS IT is honestly quite concerning.

Since Nukie commander is tied to just a click with no rime or reason then suddenly dropped into the a rather important role since one player with a lot of knowledge can absolutely dumpster a round and classic is filled with people like that, Nukies really need every advantage they can get.

The time lock to nukies could be tweaked a bit here and there though In my honest opinion Nukie commander should be tied to how many total nukie rounds you have played.