Remove spy/arcfiend only rounds

[NanoDano]

Whenever spy or arcfiend only rounds happen its always boring, maybe keeping them on mixed or making them midround antags(which they might already be) would be nice

[CalliopeSoups]

I don't have an opinion on spief rounds.

Arcfiend shifts going I wholeheartedly agree with. imo the antag shines as a secondary player, when it's all arcfiends it's just... Ugh. You know? I feel like the whole sec team goes uuhghg when they realise it's all arcfiends. Even for the arcfiends, it can be difficult to do much. Often you'll have one become the apex arcfiend sucking the entire station dry and the rest kinda just don't get much interaction.

[NanoDano]

 I feel like the whole sec time goes uuhghg when they realise it's all arcfiends.

Exactly, an antag shouldnt do that

[TheMaskedMan2]

I like arcfiends, they're neat, and they can be pretty powerful when the fiends decide to suck people and not just APCs .... BUT. I agree

They're better as a bonus antag on mixed and random/latejoin.

As for spies, I really dislike spies, I don't think they're that interesting as a full gamemode antag, but I know some players do so I am not sure if they should also be relegated to side antag.

I do get a bit sad over random side antags though since they feel so much rarer since they're usually competing with things like, cleanbot critters or stuff.

[Kotlol]

In my opinion about spy/thief rounds is the fact alot of the objectives the spy/thief has are actually another spy/thief's counter objective.

Like one has: "Keep the CE alive"
the other has: "Kill the CE no matter"

It becomes a spy vs spy game then.. too bad this happens rarely and most spy/thief rounds are just them dicking around to get cool gear.
Though things like "Get captain's spare ID and deliver it to the HoS's office for a "Bowling Kit" are one of those that make me go: "No."

Still think this round needs tweaking, but it's fun when it's spy vs spy. they do team up sometimes.. but it's more fun to know it's a game of spy's.
It would ACTUALLY be more fun to have these guys have objectives that are also ment to hunt eachother down and eliminate them like:
"Be the only spy standing"
Even spy's work will work with security... will put a large target on their back. And it becomes more about creativity and also spy's trying to gather information from crew to hunt down other spy's

[Lord_earthfire]

I think spy can be massively improved by making their standard ID be also a agent card, with all functionality. Gives more incentive to steal ID's and gives access to the listening post and a new identity, if needed. Would also fit to the spy-persona.

Spy agents have the problem that they need a good amount of time to prepare, while traitors get their gear directly and STILL need to prepare to have a chance when escalating versus security.

Especially beginner thiefs really are really freaked out to break and enter twice for a piece of gear they may or may not need.

This often leads to spies often feeling like extended, because inexperienced ones have a hard time preparing so you have 20+ minutes nothing happening at all, except maybe the morgue or a tank going missing.

[CalliopeSoups]

I think spy can be massively improved by making their standard ID be also a agent card, with all functionality. Gives more incentive to steal ID's and gives access to the listening post and a new identity, if needed. Would also fit to the spy-persona.

Spy agents have the problem that they need a good amount of time to prepare, while traitors get their gear directly and STILL need to prepare to have a chance when escalating versus security.

Especially beginner thiefs really are really freaked out to break and enter twice for a piece of gear they may or may not need.

This often leads to spies often feeling like extended, because inexperienced ones have a hard time preparing so you have 20+ minutes nothing happening at all, except maybe the morgue or a tank going missing.

I like this idea a lot personally.

[TheMaskedMan2]

For people who mention the objectives being boring. I really really feel like a lot of people should be reminded that objectives are not a rule or required at all. It's more just a random idea. I think there's a lot of confusion, since a lot of other servers pretty much will ban antags if they kill someone not on objective list. So spies can wind up thinking they can't actually use most of their stuff and only follow the contracts.

As for agent cards, that'd be nice. (Random agent card thought: It should make the npc syndi-drones friendly to you.)

[Silent Majority]

Spiefs can be nothing. or can be absolute chaos. It depends on what is available, how reachable it is, and if the spiefs know how to get to it, and, ultimately for spiefs, the AI not to taddle on them in 5 seconds of spawning

[Kotlol]

I'll just make a list of things we want for Spiefs:

- Start with Agent Card.
- Maybe one spy tool besides a camera.
- More fun objectives (even if they are suggestions)

What I still want:

- Rewarding Spy's for eliminating other spy's from the board. (taking their rewards)
- Maybe a round that is focussed on Spy vs Spy and normal Spy thieves.

[NanoDano]

I like arcfiends, they're neat, and they can be pretty powerful when the fiends decide to suck people and not just APCs .... BUT. I agree

They're better as a bonus antag on mixed and random/latejoin.

As for spies, I really dislike spies, I don't think they're that interesting as a full gamemode antag, but I know some players do so I am not sure if they should also be relegated to side antag.

I do get a bit sad over random side antags though since they feel so much rarer since they're usually competing with things like, cleanbot critters or stuff.

Honestly i wouldnt mind if antag critters were just removed, i might make a post about that, gunbots and stuff are fine but the little ones dont really do anything and just die

[NanoDano]

I'll just make a list of things we want for Spiefs:

- Start with Agent Card.
- Maybe one spy tool besides a camera.
- More fun objectives (even if they are suggestions)

What I still want:

- Rewarding Spy's for eliminating other spy's from the board. (taking their rewards)
- Maybe a round that is focussed on Spy vs Spy and normal Spy thieves.

Maybe let them disguise the flash as other stuff, because once i see the camera its obvious

[Kotlol]

I'll just make a list of things we want for Spiefs:

- Start with Agent Card.
- Maybe one spy tool besides a camera.
- More fun objectives (even if they are suggestions)

What I still want:

- Rewarding Spy's for eliminating other spy's from the board. (taking their rewards)
- Maybe a round that is focussed on Spy vs Spy and normal Spy thieves.

Maybe let them disguise the flash as other stuff, because once i see the camera its obvious

We got tourists who have cameras, a detective who has a camera and similiarly a few cameras on certain stages. It's not an inherent spy item. Infact on the old days you had to order a camera from cargo before you could go snapping... this was more a betrayal to spy's then anything.
Though a pocket camera would be nice too.

[TheMaskedMan2]

I like arcfiends, they're neat, and they can be pretty powerful when the fiends decide to suck people and not just APCs .... BUT. I agree

They're better as a bonus antag on mixed and random/latejoin.

As for spies, I really dislike spies, I don't think they're that interesting as a full gamemode antag, but I know some players do so I am not sure if they should also be relegated to side antag.

I do get a bit sad over random side antags though since they feel so much rarer since they're usually competing with things like, cleanbot critters or stuff.

Honestly i wouldnt mind if antag critters were just removed, i might make a post about that, gunbots and stuff are fine but the little ones dont really do anything and just die

Make a post. They do serve one purpose though, they give loot. I killed a single firebot after it spawned as an assistant and got glasses with full thermal protection, and as good armor as a sec vest.

[TheMaskedMan2]

I'm back again on more thoughts. Let's actually remove Spy Thief only rounds, why in the world we have five antags at once but all of them share the same-size loot pool of rng things that only refreshes once in the round far too slow is beyond me. I understand the intent is they compete or whatever but in practice it's nothing like that, it's just Traitor but slower and more limiting. Where you can be stuck with no gear or items at all cause the rng didn't spawn any good ones and the one good one was taken by someone else.