Medical Doctor should be a time-locked role.

[Josephin12]

At the present Medical Doctor, despite it being a crucial role, is heavily distrusted - many crew members would rather blatantly ignore them and head for patches and cryo. As a doctor main I get many people ignoring me while I'm trying to heal them or straight up dragging away dying people from me to scan them in the cloner. It's gotten to the point where if you'd replace the role entirely with Mediborgs the general crew would take that change positively, as they're much more trusted. From what I've seen this is mainly due to their incompetence, so as such I propose that the role should be locked behind playing around 10-15 rounds. While I do not think it would solve the problem entirely, it would be a good first step in the process of making the Doctor role more enjoyable.

[Nihisohel]

highly disagree, i find medical doctor to be a very good entry role to ss13

many argue that staffie is what a new player should do to get the fundamentals but i get it, but the issue lies on the fact that there are no clear goals in playing as one
when playing as a medical doctor, you get to learn more than what you need to learn than say a janitor, you can learn how to tend to yourself, to others, how actions work, basic chemistry and so on

your issue just usually stems on the mindsets of most players, whether that be they are clueless or that people prefer to do the healing themselves, and thats not necessarily a bad thing
theres always going to be incompetent people and theyll just have to adapt to it
you shouldnt be inclined to do your job as a doctor, is my extreme take on this situation, just do what you need to do if it warrants it
you cant heal everyone anyway

[Kotlol]

In RP doctors sometimes get ignored since "Someone is dieing, but no doctor is available, time to cryo them"
When I am a doctor, clone scanning people being done when someone finds the body is natural. You don't need to do a doctor for that, most of the time you need access... besides you don't have time to wait 5-10 mins for a doctor to show up since the body MIGHT rot and become unclonable.

And with people in critical, I think people need to go to medbay to heal, but most people can buy from mini-meds some medicine to save people anyawy.

The thing about doctors isn't the fact people don't trust doctors. It's more or less they take forever to do something.
The only moments a doctor is TRUELY NEEDED is for the following procedures:
- Any heart problems (Shock/Cardiac Failure)
- Toxins damage
- Organ replacement
- Person ODing on drugs/alcohol.
- Diseases.
- Limb replacement (mostly goes to robotcist for that even if it's simple things.)
- Autopsy (wich no one really does or knows how)
- "GIVE ME MONKEY"
- To bother genetics.

And for roleplay you get a few more:
- Therapy
- Mental instiution (player playing a human turned insane, so the coat is used)
- Complain about insurance costs.

Other wise that's all you go for a doctor.
So being trusted after a few rounds is not a bad idea, since I have died several times due to medical malpractice / incompetence / negelect that I prefer treating myself by hopping into Cryopods. Especially when the only available doctor sees me limping in and just RUNS OUT OF MEDBAY FOR SOME REASON. I am going critical and wait a minute.. and he doesn't return.. great time to cryo myself before I die.

What I also recommend is having First Aid dispenser in Medbay that dispenses treatments and can be restocked by doctors. Sleepers can do this too so can medibots with saline but only if they get near you or if someone else does it for you. By having a dispenser infront that will treat your BRUTE/HEAT damage for free like it'a an Automender at each lobby.... might help doctors with patients that need self treatment, but still allow the menders to be used for intensive doctoring.

[Mordent]

Hard-disagree that time-gating would fix the tryst issue, self-treatment is just too good for most things to be worth the risk and delay of involving someone else.

The RP server "solves" this problem via rules.

To solve on classic it would have to be a mechanical change, e.g. making self-treatment not as good somehow. This is a whole can of worms in terms of balance and game design.

[KikiMofo]

Medical is a great starter role. It teaches people one of the most important mechanics in the game. How to heal.

[Kotlol]

Hard-disagree that time-gating would fix the tryst issue, self-treatment is just too good for most things to be worth the risk and delay of involving someone else.

The RP server "solves" this problem via rules.

To solve on classic it would have to be a mechanical change, e.g. making self-treatment not as good somehow. This is a whole can of worms in terms of balance and game design.

Pretty much a better fix yea. Like if you don't have "medical training" healing is less effective... but again that is a can of worms. 
I can think of 3 ways of doing your way mordent:
1: Doctors/medical drone/borg heal 25-50% better then others when using menders/hyposprays?
2: People cannot fully heal themselves past 70% (Thus being slower), unless a doctor/medical drone/borg does it.
3: Doctors/medical drone/borgs heal players faster. (Faster mender applying and such)

And even those 3 options.. still will get people in classic will cry foul.

Just don't lock the cloner to doctors/security only, cause then medbay will be nuked every round on classic :/ Not like it already is...

[Josephin12]

Looking through the replies I will admit that it's a bad idea. For now I'll focus on making medical borgs less powerful since right now they're objectively better at healing than actual doctors, and after that I'll think about if something can even be done.

That or I'll accept that people will hate medical forever.

[Decarcassor]

My biggest gripe with medical on main in particular is just how many players treat medbay as a free self service and consider it completly normal to bolt doors open and tear down walls to get to what they want, then give shit to doctors who dare to ask them not to do that.

If this is intended gameplay then just move the cryo tubes to medbay lobby and make medkit lockers public access.

[mralexs]

I think another problem is that its way faster to attempt to heal yourself than wait for a doctor to figure out whats wrong with you or even notice you're dying, because doctors have as much tunnel vision as geneticists sometimes. I've seen them straight up ignore dying players and then wonder aloud why there is a corpse just lying there.

[Kotlol]

I think another problem is that its way faster to attempt to heal yourself than wait for a doctor to figure out whats wrong with you or even notice you're dying, because doctors have as much tunnel vision as geneticists sometimes. I've seen them straight up ignore dying players and then wonder aloud why there is a corpse just lying there.

Happens in RP too, when I get doctor, I am always sitting ready for duty. The more swamped medbay gets in RP, the more I throw into cryo-pods and keep eye on who's treatment is needed more. I think we just simply need to give doctors an edge and more importantly.. more Medical directors that are like HoS's.
Medbay can be as dangerously effective as Security, unless there is an antag in the midst.