Lets talk about Goon 2 (RANT)

[Nihisohel]

Why does Goon 2 need to exist?
As it stands, its an overflow server that has its own tight knit cliques and this some sort of "Agreement" that antagonists shouldn't be bothering with the crew and vice versa, as far as I've experienced with it anyway. To the point where crew might even assist with antags to a certain degree.
Due to this, it can lead to incredibly toxic behavior to the people that just merely inconvenienced this some form of agreement and can become metagrudging for those that just stayed for one round but can't simply do anything merely because their metagrudger is an antagonist.

I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been a second Goon2 crackdown by now, its honestly agitating.

And yeah yeah, ahelp and all that, but that doesn't seem to stop anyone in the future from doing the same would it?

Thoughts?
And yes, this is a thread made out of annoyance of a round I just had, but its something that I've had grown upon me for a while now as well.

[KikiMofo]

Goon 2 follows the same rules as Goon 1. If people are not following those rules then you Ahelp them. Period.

Goon 2 is NOT a test server, and it is NOT a server for getting into little groups and metaing other people. It's just a plain server that has less people on it.

[Mrfishstick]

Why does Goon 2 need to exist?
As it stands, its an overflow server that has its own tight knit cliques and this some sort of "Agreement" that antagonists shouldn't be bothering with the crew and vice versa, as far as I've experienced with it anyway. To the point where crew might even assist with antags to a certain degree.

It's not an "overflow" server. We renamed the various servers in part to get rid of this exact perception. None of these are actual rules and are entirely just made up nonsense people are using to yell at each other over. I can confidently speak on behalf the rest of the team when I say we would be more than happy to absolutely crush instances of this kind of shit happening if people could direct us toward it happening.

[Zamujasa]

And yeah yeah, ahelp and all that, but that doesn't seem to stop anyone in the future from doing the same would it?

as someone who has, in fact, banned several people for shitty clique behavior on 2: it very much does

[Mouse]

is goon2 being bad again

if i join as hos how many shitters am i gonna get to kill

[Yellow]

Tbh this may just be a very personal thing and not entirely related to the rules but during my time on main, being a primarily RP player, I saw blatant antag assisting. Like if people deemed they had been valid hunted, they would pull the antag away and attempt to heal them. This happened multiple times and while I ahelped asking, I never got any clarification. It really made my experience on main confusing at best, and frustrating at worst.

I ran into experiences all across the board of how much people would assist antags, but it wouldn’t really bother me until these people saw antags using their abilities infront of them and still stopping the people harming them.

One of my worst experiences was there being a wizard, who had just killed 2 people, but when I go to take them out, a doctor deemed I was valid hunting (despite me actually trying to talk to the wizard first) and constantly dragging them away trying to save and heal them, saying they were a “peaceful wizard”….

I think more clarification on main’s antag assisting and role of the antag could really help, I don’t mind antags being free to do what they want with their round, but I also believe that if they choose to be peaceful, they have the tools to enforce that peace. However, it shouldn’t be the crews position to protect that antag.

[Recusor]

While I play less now when I do play I much much prefer Goon 2s smaller player count.

With that said it also appeals to newer players who are getting their feet under them in SS13.

I have definitely seen issues of antag help but as other have said a quick f1 is all that is needed.

I feel like I am performing a public service by actively murdering anyone who isn't an antag that tries to help me when I am *nods with determination*

[Cal]

ahelp and call the shuttle so you get a fresh round

as for antag assisting: blatantly helping harmful, murderous antags is ahelpable. you SHOULD ahelp it.

[Yellow]

Re; blatantly helping **harmful, murderous** antags

The issues range deeper, what if someone is helping an antags who has attacked but not killed but claims to be “friendly and peaceful”. The definition of valid is always strange to me, the best way I’ve heard it described is “when someone is without a reasonable doubt possessing antag status (par special cases: cluwne)”, however when people defend visible valids (wizards) because they claim to be wizards and haven’t seen them commit a crime, it leads to me being very confused. I’ve had this happen with a doctor, but also security has defended them from me.

I won’t lie, I am a valid hunter as I play hard for whatever team I’m assigned to, but when sec saves a visible antag (I don’t harm new players) from me, it just doesn’t feel right for them to be healed up, patted on the back, and let free to wreak havoc again while I am brigged.

[KikiMofo]

This whole antag valid hunter subject seems like a different conversation than Goon 2s problems.

[Yellow]

That is true, apologies for pulling from the topic of the thread

[Froggit_Dogget]

Ive been doing alot of solo sec on 2 over the past few weeks, and honestly its not that different from 1. The key differences ive noticed, are that,

A. People will attempt to kill the only member of security alot more often on 2.
B. Whereas on 1, The antags get validhunted quickly, on 2, They die off due to their own aggressions alot. (see A)
C. However, when they dont, you often get rampage rounds on 2, more often then 1.

Due to the pop differences, Once an antag takes out a few people on 2, theres usually nobody left to stop them. However you do see validhunters on 2, and while they are on you get a streak of very boring, nothing happening rounds. If you get on 2 to validhunt, your making the game boring for everyone. If you get on 2 to help antags, you are also making the game boring for everyone (but the antag). There is a very fine balance on lowerpop, that can easily be swayed just by who is online.

However, that can lead to some fun moments, when nobodies really out of the round and there is good conflict. People do die, but that is part of the game. 2 isnt that much different from 1, in some cases theres more chaos, in some cases theres less, but its much easier for 1 person to completely change a round on 2. 

Really, there isn't much of an issue. There are many ways to play this game, and I don't think much action needs to be taken. If you play there and get obviously griefed, ahelp it. The admins do a really good job of managing that. I don't know if I can say this, but they managed to ban someone who was metagrudging me when I didn't even know what was happening.

[ZeWaka]

the best part of being antag: you can validhunt the crew

[AmazingDragons]

the best part of being antag: you can validhunt the crew

can is a strong word for someone with the robustness of your average autonomous buttbot

[Froggit_Dogget]

the best part of being antag: you can validhunt the crew

can is a strong word for someone with the robustness of your average autonomous buttbot

only one way to get better. and its not by not trying.