Tracking Implant - Remove Teleportation Target

[Jakson]

Tracking implants are fine as they are, and they’re typically used for antags who want to be released by security. If you have a tracking implant in you, and you’re planning to do crime, get it removed, it’s not too hard.

And if security is going to debrain you just for removing a tracking implant, they probably already wanted you dead before they put the implant in you, which wouldn’t make sense.

[THISISANICEGAME]

Ime, tracking implants are put in wizards so they are easier to track down, effectively making their escape abilities useless if you have a hand Tele. Can't say how good they are because I don't use them but they don't really seem fair.

[Nidabutt]

Tracking implants are fine as they are, and they’re typically used for antags who want to be released by security. If you have a tracking implant in you, and you’re planning to do crime, get it removed, it’s not too hard.

And if security is going to debrain you just for removing a tracking implant, they probably already wanted you dead before they put the implant in you, which wouldn’t make sense.

Not sure if you're understanding what my issue is with them. Using tracking implants on antags who've not yet been arrested and are KoS is a cheap way to kill them with very little interaction. Most antags will not be able to take the implant out before sec (and anyone else who wants to join in) start teleporting onto them, unless the sec team is very unrobust and disorderly, that is if the antag even notices the tiny line of text saying they've been implanted to begin with, which is one of the biggest issues I have with it.

A stun baton is 2 hits, has a very visible model, has sound, a daze effect on your character and a status effect on the hud - the implant has none of these things, in addition to being able to be fired from an implant gun. Yet, both have an incredibly powerful effect, doesn't seem right to me.

[Cal]

A stun baton is 2 hits, has a very visible model, has sound, a daze effect on your character and a status effect on the hud - the implant has none of these things, in addition to being able to be fired from an implant gun. Yet, both have an incredibly powerful effect, doesn't seem right to me.

Somewhat unrelated to the main post - Would be totally down for implanters having a sound audible to the implant-ee.

[Ikea]

We could fix a lot of issues in one go here. Personally, Id suggest that implanters now come with a 4 second action bar visible by everyone, this would make loyaltying people and teleporting people be conveyed better and harder to do. Micros, macros and mindslaves come in syndicate implanters, these have a 2 second action bar only visible to the person implanting. As we have seen a few months ago, people can get into the habit of targeting robust people and mindslaving them round after round, this would make it far harder to mindslave the type of people who spot people holding mindslave implants.

[Sbmhawk]

I was about to suggest the same thing as Ikea before getting to the end of the thread, +1 to that idea. Maybe let heads have a faster implant speed for loyalties because of some "NT anti-revolution training"

[RGBDeadSilent]

Just make implanting people non-instant. As far as the tracking ability goes and being able to teleport to people, if security stuns you and tracks you, its essentially your very iffy second chance at life, and if you mess up they warp in and beat you with sticks. I don't see much of an issue with it.

[zjdtmkhzt]

Yup, IKEAs proposal sounds like a pretty good solution to me!

[Nidabutt]

Yup, IKEAs proposal sounds like a pretty good solution to me!

Agreed, sort of, it would mean you can't just jab someone mid-combat which was rather annoying. Though, I do have to ask, what about implant guns? Wont that render this change kind of meaningless since they're instant?

[Froggit_Dogget]

yall are underestimating just how impossible rev rounds would be if that happened.

[zjdtmkhzt]

Sec has tons of stun weaponry, they can just stun a rev and then do the 2 second inject action bar?
And the medical director gets the implant gun anyways.
So I think it could be fine, and can always be adjusted if loyalist side is deemed underpowered after a change.

[Mouse]

Pretty sure we experimented with implanting loyalties taking an action bar and it was quickly reverted because of how awful it made rev rounds.

[Ikea]

Generally its a curbstomp on secs side due to them being able to quickly loyalty people making it far harder for revs to bounce back, making loyalties harder to do would help revs in a good way i think.

Re: implant gun, it could be rethemed as like mechanical implanter or whatever and just be a faster still publically visible implanter (something like 2 seconds implant time), that way sec has an easier time loyalting people.

[AlyasGrey]

We have this discussion like once every couple of months.

If it's a rev round and sec is running around trying to get next to you, it should be pretty clear what they intend. So don't let them get next to you and you'll be fine. As far as mindslaves go, the only times I've generally gotten mindslaved I was already suspicious of that person for doing something like walking towards me during a weirdly unprompted conversation. Same reason I'd be suspicious that someone may be a changeling.

I'll also say what I've said every other time... if you add an action bar that requires you stun someone in order to finish an implant you're defeating a lot of the purpose of them. The person you stunned, as a non-sec officer, isn't going to know that they aren't in the process of getting murdered so they're going to use the radio. And since flashes are the go-to for downing people as a random crewmember you're going to only increase the value of eye protection. So get ready for even more crew wandering around in welding masks for no good reason beyond flash protection.

And now that everyone worth mindslaving has welding masks on every single round we've also increased the value of stun batons. Which changes even more things. You've increased the relative power of people with all access since they can very easily order and open sec crates from QM to snag those precious batons. Captain and HOP traitors move even higher on the power curve while increasing the value of the Captain's spare. Beyond that you've likely also discouraged non-traitor HOPs from providing certain access upgrades or promoting crew to security during emergencies while minimal sec is on station.

And I'm sure everything I just said is only the tip of the balance iceberg.

[RichardGere]

We have this discussion like once every couple of months.

If it's a rev round and sec is running around trying to get next to you, it should be pretty clear what they intend. So don't let them get next to you and you'll be fine. As far as mindslaves go, the only times I've generally gotten mindslaved I was already suspicious of that person for doing something like walking towards me during a weirdly unprompted conversation. Same reason I'd be suspicious that someone may be a changeling.

I'll also say what I've said every other time... if you add an action bar that requires you stun someone in order to finish an implant you're defeating a lot of the purpose of them. The person you stunned, as a non-sec officer, isn't going to know that they aren't in the process of getting murdered so they're going to use the radio. And since flashes are the go-to for downing people as a random crewmember you're going to only increase the value of eye protection. So get ready for even more crew wandering around in welding masks for no good reason beyond flash protection.

And now that everyone worth mindslaving has welding masks on every single round we've also increased the value of stun batons. Which changes even more things. You've increased the relative power of people with all access since they can very easily order and open sec crates from QM to snag those precious batons. Captain and HOP traitors move even higher on the power curve while increasing the value of the Captain's spare. Beyond that you've likely also discouraged non-traitor HOPs from providing certain access upgrades or promoting crew to security during emergencies while minimal sec is on station.

And I'm sure everything I just said is only the tip of the balance iceberg.

Pretty much this.