[PR] Disables Miscreants

[Leeanei]

The big issue with miscreant is it blurs the line between non-antag and antag. When blurred, people do awful things and try to use the miscreant status to justify it. A mechanic that makes people think they can break rules is not a good mechanic at all.

[aft2001]

I personally support removal of miscreants.

If you, reading this, disagree with this, please ask yourself: "What does the Miscreant mechanic actually add to the game that players can't already do?" Players already can go open a shop, destroy all the shrubs, kill all the pets (not the functional ones ofc), etc. as a non-antag, so what's the point?

The presence of Miscreants doesn't meaningfully add anything to the experience of the game, it just seems to add... confusion.

[Merlin1230]

while the objectives might be fun for some people to do, miscreants are definitely not the best way to do it. People might confuse it for an antag. besides, you can already do all of the objectives without the status. Maybe we can have some sort of option in character setup that gives you a objective to do upon spawning, for the people that liked the miscreant objectives or just have no idea what to do.

[Katzen]

Yes, remove miscreants and add more crew objectives.

While it allows for wacky suggestions "start a zoo" it also causes confusion for new players and is pointless for experienced players.

[Mouse]

Incidentally, if we need a replacement for the requirement for the "spawned as a miscreant" medal, I'd recommend changing it to "joining as a staff assistant".  Fits reasonably well for the name.

I don't think that medal is considered secret content but I'm holding off on naming it just in case.

[Frank_Stein]

Imo, add gangs to mixed.

[Crystalwarrior]

How about replacing the chance of being a miscreant with the chance of seeing a "Random idea:" message at roundstart.
It would be exactly the same, but phrased differently as to reduce confusion.
Trying to put myself in the shoes of a new player, I'd be much less inclided to think I can do antag stuff if what I saw was preceded by "Hey here's a random idea" than if it's preceded by "You're a miscreant!".

It makes explicit the fact that it's just an idea or suggestion, and doesn't make you feel like you have a status different from regular crewmembers.

This could also be an opportunity to edit out some suggestions or add new ones.

I agree with this, either that or retool it into crew objectives and remove griefy suggestions.

[Chayot]

>Players already can go open a shop, destroy all the shrubs, kill all the pets (not the functional ones ofc), etc. as a non-antag, so what's the point?
>...you can already do all of the objectives without the status.
If I can do it, why not remove objectives altogether? Just because I can doesn't mean I will, without justifiable means.

YES, players do bad stuff already.
Yet ​for someone like myself, I'm not gonna break into the Captain's office to destroy his banzai tree unless I have an objective that wants it.

I'm not adverse to removing "miscreant" status. The Objectives, However, I will miss.
I think it makes for great interactions as Azrun brought out.
I won't miss miscreant status, but I will miss the objectives.

I think it's less of an "I am a miscreant, I'm gonna kill security" and more of a
"I am miscreant, I tried to destroy the captain's banzai tree but sec came after me and almost killed me so I killed them."
The problem seems more like they followed their objectives and it took them to a bad place.
When questioned "Why?", they'll state the thing that brought them there in the first place--"I am a miscreant."

And yet, I re-iterate, it makes for fun interactions. I remember in my early days as a secoff, interacting with miscreants. It was fun.

[TheMaskedMan2]

I feel like everyone is already a miscreant by default to be honest. This just feels like the thing where "Objectives literally don't matter" and that's the only difference between miscreants and normal crew.

Any normal crew can do some shenanigans, regardless of miscreant status. The only thing it offers is maybe encouraging more casual players to do something out of the box I suppose?

[MomoBerry]

Miscreants follow under the exact same grief rules as non antags, if theres something miscreants can do its something crew can do. People who want to cause mishap will do it anyways because they know they can regardless of being miscreant, and people who dont just end up being confused. Its an idea that sounds really nice on paper but in practice it doesnt really end up working out well.

This is basically everything summed up for me. It's just making something seem like a special status when it doesn't actually do anything, and might make newer players think they have a special status when they do not. Perhaps rework this into a midround event that gives people specific goofy tasks, or something of the sort? I like the mechanic of poking a player and saying "Hey, here are a bunch of goofy gimmicks." Implementing it in a non-invasive way is hard though.

Also, if gangs was reworked to be department based and something akin to the old "Nations" that I hear about a bunch, I would love it to be added to mixed. Current gangs? Nty, i personally hate gang rounds because it's just so, so messy. Predetermined gang members being the rest of your department sounds much more convenient over a gamemode essentially breaking a predefined rule for not asking for antag status or suiciding for it, etc, and being the only exception.