Breaking out of pins is ridiculously difficult, and needs a tweak.

[Cal]

The other day I was pinned down, had full stamina, mashed resist -13- times while being drained and was unable to break it at full stamina.

This is ridiculous. Pinning needs some kind of tweak. I'm not sure how exactly it works, but I believe it's stamina based while draining a bit of the pinner's stamina and  your own.

[Souricelle]

Pins are useful for sec when they want to actually do a proper job and not just kill people, maybe being cuffed should make it hard and otherwise it should be a bit easier depending on your condition.

[Cal]

Grabbing cuffed people basically renders them immobile, not sure why you'd need to pin them after that.

Pinning BEFORE that to cuff them though, is very useful.

Perhaps Security could have better ability/odds to restrain people in pins/avoid them breaking out via the Security Training trait they get?

[KikiMofo]

Yeah I couldnt break a pin at all last time I tried. I can understand not being able to get out of a sec pinning you because they SHOULD be able to do it properly but a scientist egg head nerd pinning you? Na

[mbc]

pin resists have a soft-cap at 8, where at 8 or greater attempts they start rolling a raw prob() to break free alongside doing the stamina drains.
that prob roll is currently 7% chance to break free on top of the normal stamina stuff, could prob be raised that there

alternatively, change the stamina consumption amounts +- 10 points in either direction

[kyle2143]

Iirc pins are supposed to be a game over for a fight. Like an equivalent to choking someone on "kill", but doing so without actually killing them.

Though I can understand that they are a good bit easier to apply to someone than the Kill grab since the grab requires you to stand still for the action bar(plus remove their headgear if they have it), and the pin requires you to simply never move further than 1 tile from the target turf. (Sort of unrelated, but I think this is something that could be better communicated to players, I never even knew it worked this way until told. Maybe like some indicator on the pin target turf and mob).

I didn't actually know that pins were so difficult to escape since I never used them much, but they should be a "win condition" for a fight. Maybe just not a permanent one. I think if I had to give a suggestion then I would say that instead of simply changing numbers to make pins drain the Pinner's stamina until the Pinnee breaks free (because flat number balance changes like that are easily broken by chems and other stamina buffs) that some element of skill should be involved. Like maybe attempting to move while pinned should jerk your sprite in some direction, or make some little sprite animation that the Pinner has to respond to or else suffer a greater loss of stamina. Effectively letting the Pinned person escape if the Pinner isn't focused enough on keeping them pinned.

[Cal]

Iirc pins are supposed to be a game over for a fight. Like an equivalent to choking someone on "kill", but doing so without actually killing them.

Didn't think about it this way. I can understand why they are the way they are now, but I think they're kind of easy to DO.

[Zafhset]

If you're at the point where someone is able to pin you, you've already lost the fight or are in no condition to fight back (stunlock, crit, etc).

For people who don't have cuffs, the option to pin is a good alternative aside from outright murder.

[Carbadox]

Its extremely easy to abuse pins by cheesing action bars. If you continuously run into a corner, trying to move out of the pin doesnt work and almost certainly secures a successfull pin. We already have cuffs so I dont even think pins should be a "game over" state and should be considerably nerfed

[NOOT]

Very much agree with this statement. the fact someone who is "faster" than you for reasons (Health slowdown, robot legs, drugs) can grab you, and whislt you are mashing resist, hold sprint against a wall, and use this to initiate a pin seems silly. You can try to sprint away from a wall but generally this will not work, especially if you are in a corner with two or more blocks in either direction from the corner.

My other problem with pins is that you can pin someone with only one hand. It is my understanding the main justification when pins were added was for multiple people vs one combat, where one person could pin a player whilst the others dealt with them. The fact you can hold someone who is struggling down with one hand, whilst you are "standing" (ie able to use your other hand for other actions) doesnt make much sense to me.

In my opinion pinning a player should send you both prone, whilst giving you a special undroppable (droppable by player, but not droppable by going prone) pin status in your primary hand. How are you pinning someone to the ground, using one hand, whilst standing up?

[Ikea]

Pinning is unfun when youre in a cramped room with someone and cant move away from them pinning you.

[Froggit_Dogget]

Its extremely easy to abuse pins by cheesing action bars. If you continuously run into a corner, trying to move out of the pin doesnt work and almost certainly secures a successfull pin. We already have cuffs so I dont even think pins should be a "game over" state and should be considerably nerfed

99% of the time if your disarming them, spamming resist, and trying to walk out, youll break free.

Imo, pins arent “super easy” and if you have any sort of stamina damage weapon you can even stamcrit someone faster then they can pin you. Theres like a million counters to not being pinned.

[Technature]

[Cal]

Imo, pins arent “super easy” and if you have any sort of stamina damage weapon you can even stamcrit someone faster then they can pin you. Theres like a million counters to not being pinned.

They are super easy. You click in a corner and start running into it. There's virtually nothing you can do since resisting a grab is also rng.

* image*

Please contribute instead of posting images.

[Technature]

Okay.

This is a kneejerk reaction and I don't understand why we're having this conversation.