change who is considered human by the AI to include mutantraces

[coolvape]

currently lizards, cows, roaches, and squids are considered nonhuman

however, this has absolutely 0 effect on the game - excepting weird edge cases, there's basically no scenario where them being nonhuman would actually matter. you can't kill them, most AIs aren't going to go "hmm this person is a mutant i won't listen to them", so why are they nonhuman?

the rules should be changed to make those (but not monkeys) be considered human by the AI rules, to make things more clear.

[kyle2143]

This is not true. You are incorrect. Those mutantraces are considered human by the AI. Look at the AI's wiki. It was changed a few months ago to include this.

I'm so wrong here. Sad. I posted below.

[Lady Birb]

Yeah if a silicon is treating a mutantrace player as nonhuman adminhelp and optionally killswitch them.

[coolvape]

This is not true. You are incorrect. Those mutantraces are considered human by the AI. Look at the AI's wiki. It was changed a few months ago to include this.

That is what I'm going off. Each of the AI wiki pages link to this page when talking about who is considered human: https://wiki.ss13.co/Human , with a screen included below of the relevant section. This page hasn't been changed since 2020. Maybe there is another wiki, or another page I'm missing, but I combed through each relevant AI wiki page to be sure and nothing on any page that I can find does that. Per a conversation I had on discord earlier, and several searches through discord logs, this is an incredibly common thing for people to believe.

---

Yeah if a silicon is treating a mutantrace player as nonhuman adminhelp and optionally killswitch them.

i know that functionally treating them as nonhuman is still grief according to the rules as written,  my proposal is just 'editing the wiki page for human to say they're considered human instead of nonhuman' to clear up that confusion entirely.

[Camryn]

This is not true. You are incorrect. Those mutantraces are considered human by the AI. Look at the AI's wiki. It was changed a few months ago to include this.

Yeah, I can't find any evidence of this.

The only thing similar is a brief mention that lizards and such are still protected by rule 1, so killing them without an order or law would be considered grief.

[KikiMofo]

Mutant races arent considered human but they are still player characters and protected under RULE 1 not LAW 1.

[kyle2143]

Ah, my bad. I was wrong. So wrong.

We had an admin vote to clarify this point a few months ago and I assumed that it was resolved, thinking that the side I voted for lost, but we actually were really split on it.

So it's something we gotta come back to and workshop a solution that everyone can accept.

[Retrino]

i’m genuinely curious as to the reasons for why they shouldn’t be considered human… since they’re covered by grief rules regardless

[Superlagg]

They're semi-human. You have to treat them as human, but you don't have to like it.

[coolvape]

Mutant races arent considered human but they are still player characters and protected under RULE 1 not LAW 1.

They're semi-human. You have to treat them as human, but you don't have to like it.

Yes, that's the point of this. They should just be marked as "human" on the wiki page/the rules, since there's no real scenario where them being nonhuman(the current status) actually matters, and it just adds confusion. Even the goofy edge cases (two people are captain, one is a human, one is a lizard, and they give contradictory orders - you could in theory go with the human's orders over the lizards) are not really fun for anyone involved.

[nefarious6th]

Related thread on how this impacts Law 2 specifically from a while back: https://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid=15440

Too tired to go over the key points, sorry.

[TheRealFlapJackson]

An easy way to fix this would be to replace every instance of "Human" in the laws with "Humanoid" (Thus including lizardpeople, cowpeople, skeletons, etc.) or with "Crewmembers," which would include everyone on the manifest.

[unfunnyperson]

An easy way to fix this would be to replace every instance of "Human" in the laws with "Humanoid" (Thus including lizardpeople, cowpeople, skeletons, etc.) or with "Crewmembers," which would include everyone on the manifest.

Replacing it with crew members could be iffy. The ai could freely attack wizards and nuke ops.

[zjdtmkhzt]

I think some nonhuman antags would qualify as humanoid as well.

I think the best solution here would be to just say mutantraces are human. (Which ... they seem to be since you can change into one with just the activation of a single gene.)

The way it is now is just confusing for no reason.

[Varali]

I really don't think there's any good reason not to mark them as human for the AI laws. Just work out the wording and phrasing so it works nicely with antags, nukies and whatever like it currently does, or change it!