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01-25-2021, 05:21 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2021, 11:40 PM by github_bot. Edited 7 times in total.)
PULL REQUEST DETAILS
[balance][input wanted]
About the PR
This PR gives sleeper agents a stripped down version of the syndicate uplink, containing 5TC to spend and having only the items that cost 3TC or less available. Meaning: power sinks, sleepy pens, emags, syndie analyzers, stimulants, lethal weaponry such as csabers are not included.
The sleeper uplink is exclusive to noRP servers.
Why's this needed?
Currently, sleeper agents are not very interesting and function solely as a license to grief. And if someone gets sleepered later into the round, they don't have much time to come up with anything too creative, so they end up rushing plasma tanks to flood the station, assault people at random or just ignore their antag status. Giving the sleeper agents at least some toys to play with should improve their gameplay variety, without impacting the round too much, since the most overpowered and impactful traitor gear is simply not available to them.
Changelog
Code: changelog
(u)TTerc:
(*)On nonRP servers, sleeper agents are now able to spawn a stripped down version of the syndicate uplink.
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BYOND Username: Nefarious6th
I have some concerns I guess about how this'll play out on RP specifically, but I think the need for direction as a sleeper is greater than the need to micromanage the amount of lethal tools and contraband flowing throughout a round. I'm not 100% sold on it, but I would be down to see this merged and see how it plays out first.
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BYOND Username: virvatuli
This is mostly just reiterating what I said on the discord but giving Sleepers access to TC changes the balance of a shift dramatically, even with just light gear. You already have multiple roundstart antags plus whatever ones have latejoined, and adding 3 or more sleepers into a shift with their own goodies is basically a recipe for even more chaos that already happens. Not even taking the RP servers into account (this would not go over well there), shifts are pure chaos enough on non-RP that adding more free traitor gear into the loot pile seems like a bad idea.
On top of this, having traitor items handed to you easy mode is basically completely opposite of what Sleeper agents are supposed to be about, it's hard-mode traitor and thus putting a bit of effort into making/finding all the station alternatives to fun murdertimes is part of the deal of getting a free antag roll midshift. Giving them access to traitor gear on a whim cheapens the experience in my opinion. I'd rather see Sleeper spawns reworked if they're going to be given access to easy syndie gear.
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BYOND Username: TTerc
01-25-2021, 06:04 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2021, 06:14 AM by Caro. Edited 2 times in total.)
If you believe this change would impact the RP server rounds in negative way, I could always exclude the sleeper uplink from RP mode. Giving too many people traitor items on RP server could introduce too much chaos.
Tho, I've taken a look at the syndicate items list a few times and changed the item pool a little, now only <=3TC items are available. And I think it's a good compromise. I hope it'll encourage people to buy less popular gimmicky items.
And on topic of sleeper spawns - how about removing the 25% chance of two sleeper spawns and leaving the 50% chance of one agent only?
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BYOND Username: Flappybat
For reference, stuff under three cost for all jobs:
Trick Cigarettes
Fake Moustache
Detomatix Cartridge
Chameleon Suit
Stealth Container
Freedom Implant
Agent Card
Voice Changer
EMP Grenades
Target ID Tracker
Floor Closet
Microbomb Implant
DNA Scrambler
Spy Sticker Kit
SounDreamS PRO cartridge
Tactical Grenades
Chameleon Projector
Derringer
Sonic Grenades
Syndicate Omnitool
Cloaking Field Generator
Syndicates in Pipebomb
Rad Poison Crossbow
Signal Jammer
Mind-Slave Implant
.22 Pistol Box
Fibre Wire
Syndicate Sponge Capsules
Wiretap Radio Upgrade
The job specific items are:
Maneater Seed Botanist
Syndicate Sauce Chef, Bartender
Moustache Grenade Assistant, Clown
Poison Bottle Bartender, MD, Medical Doctor, RD, Scientist
Trick Revolver Clown
Miniature Bible Assistant, Chaplain, Clown
Syndicate Mailman Suit Mailman
Hotdog Bomb Chef, Sous Chef, Waiter, Clown
Syndicate Donk Pockets Chef
Chem Grenade Starter Kit RD, Scientist
Jug of Moonshine Bartender
Extra Large Shot Glasses Bartender
Syndicate Robot Frame Roboticist
Syndicate Cleaner Grenades Janitor
.38 AP Ammo Box Detective
Slip and Sign Janitor
Pickpocket Gun Engineer, Mechanic, Staff Assistant, Clown
Amplified Vuvuzela Assistant, Clown
Syringe Gun MD, Medical Doctor, RD, Scientist, Bartender
Syndicate Cargo Transporter QM, Engineer, Miner
Speed Injector Geneticist
Wasp Grenades Botanist
Advanced Optical Thermal Scanner Detective
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BYOND Username: KikiMofo
If you are going to give them 5tc then you should let them buy stuff that cost up to 5tc.
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sleeper agents are closer in severity to a radstorm or a meteor shower; they are not meant to be as impactful as a late join wrestler or other full antagonist.
I'm not particularly interested in seeing sleeper agents made into "fuller" antagonists.
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BYOND Username: Azrun
Character Name: Harry Harry
Using the uplink to direct you to a dead drop location where you could "spawn" a mini-surplus crate would be an interesting thematic take, but that feels like a very drastic shift from initial intent of the change. It could also just include possibly uncommon gear that facilitates mischievous activities like insulated gloves, rubber boots, gas mask, multi-tool and stuff like that.
Being activated as a sleeper agent feels like a green light to help enhance the story/round. There are a lot of existing tools outside of syndicate items available to complicate NT employee lives.
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BYOND Username: Aft2001
Honestly sleeper agents are already chaotic as it is. While I can't say much for the non-RP servers, I'd be very very hesitant to see this be implemented onto the RP servers. Traitor gear is absolutely not necessary to make an interesting story, so again, I don't think this belongs on RP at all.
Again, I can't say much for the non-RP servers since I don't frequent them and haven't played on them for quite some time now.
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BYOND Username: Superlagg
Maybe instead of traitor equipment, they could use the uplink to order some non-antag stuff, like tools and medkits? Less outright chaotic, but makes them more able to do traitorous things.
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BYOND Username: Cthucky
On non-RP servers sleeper agents tend to either do nothing or just plasmaflood/nonhuman everyone/hellsmoke/similarly high destruction and low effort things because they lack the tools or time to do anything else.
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BYOND Username: TTerc
Since it seems nobody who plays on RP thinks giving sleepers the uplink is a good idea, I've made this change exclusive to noRP server and gave RP sleepers different antag tips window.
(01-25-2021, 06:47 PM)Mouse Wrote: On non-RP servers sleeper agents tend to either do nothing or just plasmaflood/nonhuman everyone/hellsmoke/similarly high destruction and low effort things because they lack the tools or time to do anything else.
Yeah, those are exactly my thoughts aswell. Sleeper agents on goon2 usually don't have much time to do anything meaningful and they try to impact the round in some way so they go for the easiest methods, such as plasmaflooding. I personally don't think giving them uplink will introduce more chaos to noRP servers, since sleeper agents can cause a lot of chaos without the tools anyway. The issue is, they usually don't do it in an interesting way.
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I feel if there's any items they should get, it should be stealth focused
Silenced .22
Derringer
Fibre Wire
Dagger
Those kind of things
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BYOND Username: Flappybat
I think this is a reasonable idea to try out and that the items available would not result in worse murder sprees than we see currently from sleepers.
Technically as a major antagonist event the system has detected a lack of antagonists and could have rolled a ghost spawn into a Predator/Vampire/Changeling etc who are likely higher impact than 1-2 sleepers, although that is certainly open to variation. Emily is not wrong in saying that generally a sleeper would be lower impact but I think the very limited TC available would not present much risk, better enable the sleeper to do things and potentially reduce people just turning to bombs or fire.
I have also seen multiple times people say they forgot they were a sleeper or didn't want to do anything with a sleeper and giving them access to a limited range of traitor tools could give them a nudge of motivation.
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Goonhub
