Vampirate mentor app don't laugh.

[vampirate]

I didn't really provoke people in the cool zone so much as have non-extreme opinions. The cool zone is a pretty militant left place where non militant left non extreme positions can get shouted down. My position on the native Americans was there's a good chance that the initial plagues that hit them probably weren't intentional. I even linked some papers and stuff and dropped it. But like... when you shout down or ban dissenting opinions, yeah.... what's left in the cool zone is one set of ideas... and yeah... and people who don't like those ideas being accepted as anything less than the gospel truth. I say this as an LGBT Bernie bro myself. Cool-zone is not a welcoming place and it is not known as such by the people in the goon discord who avoid it.

[popecrunch]

Not just a no from me but a hell no. Keep your nose cleaner longer and we'll talk. (i almost never chime in on hos/mentor applications, whether that means you put more or less weight on my opinion is not my concern)

[vampirate]

To give you an idea of the reinforcement ... Taurward was my banning admin from coolzone, and I got this sent to me the next day by someone from cool-zone who was upset and felt afraid to ever voice a differing opinion there.   

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I think a thread/discussion on the state of coolzone outside of my application would probably be a healthy thing for yall to post.

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I wanna be clear, I disagree on the cool zone stuff but overall appreciate the feedback.

[popecrunch]

I don't think this thread turning into a referendum on cool zone is going to work out for anyone. I encourage you to make a different thread if you want to discuss the state of cool zone.

[vampirate]

I don't think this thread turning into a referendum on cool zone is going to work out for anyone. I encourage you to make a different thread if you want to discuss the state of cool zone.

Yeah was just saying that :p. I dunno if I should be the one to post it. Especially having been out and not being unbiased on my opinions about it. I think if I posted it it'd be all negative in terms of response, or it'd lean that way me feeling I needed to chime in more since it'd be my thread. I think it's a conversation ya'll will probably wanna have with the community though, just from the people who talk to me about it now even having been out of it a while.

[warcrimes]

im just going to say 'no' based on some events and conversations that show one or both of either:
- some really egregiously insensitive world views that would really really not translate well as a "representative" of the community
- an oblivious but infuriating lack of judgment on what questions need answering and when to shut up and walk away from playing devil's advocate.

can't speak to which is the primary concept, and i'll refrain from posting the screenshots in question unless you want me to, but i'm frankly deeply dissapointed in what I saw within a very brief search.
You've been at an acceptable level for a player, considering the thin ice you've skated on, but that's far below the performance I expect from someone I would trust to be an ambassador to new players.

[Studenterhue]

I bring up the cool-zone conduct for similar reasons Urs bought it up (though she has her own reasons that it'd be best for her herself to explain). Whether people intend it or recognize it or not, mentors represent the community, and if there's some sort of conflict with a particular part of the community, that's cause for concern. If someone had a tendency to mock people's code in imcoder or insult people for their sprites in imspriter, I'd be raising similar concerns on their mentor app. Even if that person does not plan to share code or sprite advice over mentorhelp, they, as a Goonstation "ambassador", would not be representing the things we value. On the same token, if someone had a tendency to make discussions heated to people's detriment, even if they did not intend it, that would be worth at least considering and looking into, regardless of who's in the right or wrong.

Anyways, I've been deliberately avoiding addressing Vampirate's opinions about the cool-zone for similar reasons to popecrunch recommending making a new thread. They're related to the matters bought up, but whether they're legitimate or not are a little outside of the topic of "would Vampirate be a good mentor?".

To close, I want to say that, like Podrick and Flaborized said, the standards are a lot higher for you because of your overall history. You gotta prove to people that the "jerk that got sploded multiple times" Vampirate is not the Vampirate that's applying for mentor, and that's gonna take a lot of work to convince people that, I'm afraid. You gotta basically be perfect. And well, perhaps it could change in the future, but like them, I'm not convinced, so I can't give a Yes to the app.

[vampirate]

The only reason I applied is cause I heard a lot of mentors weren't even answering questions, tbh, and like... I constantly answer questions. Isn't that the main focus of a mentor? not the world views, which can be vairable, but like... willingness to reach out and help players who need helping and want to learn? Like if the cool zone was set up to be an inclusive place but like... anyone there less than militant left was shouted down. I have a hard time viewing the world in terms of monsters and not monsters... like I said, I'm a pacifist lgbt Bernie Bro and still not left enough. My political views tend to be oversensitive... like I wanna believe the best of everyone and hope everyone gets a fair shake. My political views should also not factor in in my opinion, particularly since for the most part ... I am more progressive than your average bear. Like I said, excluding people who don't meet a singular mindset just silences them... or occasionally causes a mass exodus.

I mean, ding me on how I react to things if you want. Or how I've approached the game... but "I don't like their worldview" when I'm not a white supremacist, anti-lgbt, or anything close is kinda.... I dunno. Is it something that should be here? Is your average moderate's instructions "if you wanna be a mentor don't state your world view"? Like, I am well left of moderate... I've stopped expressing my political views or any empathy for anyone moderate or right winged in Goon cause that was made clear it wasn't a welcome point of view... It just feels like ... I dunno. I love the community, I'mma leave it alone. I just think yall might wanna address that approach before "Why we left" 2.0 happens. I'm the wrong person to be saying cause I came back in on the aftermath of that. I've just been focusing, especially since the cool zone thing, on being helpful to people and having chill conversations about games. Yall might noticed I stopped posting in general for the most part too.

If you're going for welcoming, I think you missed the mark. I hate that my thread became a discussion on the cool zone. I avoided posting a thread on it cause I was like "it's their decision, if that's how they wanna run things. It's one chatroom and discussion there only made me feel bleak anyway" People actually playing with me seem to have given positive feedback so far. People who don't like what I said in chill zone haven't so I dunno.

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I bring up the cool-zone conduct for similar reasons Urs bought it up (though she has her own reasons that it'd be best for her herself to explain). Whether people intend it or recognize it or not, mentors represent the community, and if there's some sort of conflict with a particular part of the community, that's cause for concern. If someone had a tendency to mock people's code in imcoder or insult people for their sprites in imspriter, I'd be raising similar concerns on their mentor app. Even if that person does not plan to share code or sprite advice over mentorhelp, they, as a Goonstation "ambassador", would not be representing the things we value. On the same token, if someone had a tendency to make discussions heated to people's detriment, even if they did not intend it, that would be worth at least considering and looking into, regardless of who's in the right or wrong.

Anyways, I've been deliberately avoiding addressing Vampirate's opinions about the cool-zone for similar reasons to popecrunch recommending making a new thread. They're related to the matters bought up, but whether they're legitimate or not are a little outside of the topic of "would Vampirate be a good mentor?".

To close, I want to say that, like Podrick and Flaborized said, the standards are a lot higher for you because of your overall history. You gotta prove to people that the "jerk that got sploded multiple times" Vampirate is not the Vampirate that's applying for mentor, and that's gonna take a lot of work to convince people that, I'm afraid. You gotta basically be perfect. And well, perhaps it could change in the future, but like them, I'm not convinced, so I can't give a Yes to the app.

I can respect that feedback. Like I said in my app, I wasn't even convinced i should be a mentor with my history and my rough edges, but people kept saying apply. People I interact with within the game, and people I've helped so I thought I'd post it. I am pretty sure it's denied, and will always be denied but I thought I'd try. I can continue to help players out how I am now, and for me that's good enough.

[popecrunch]

Honestly? I don't actually care about your political views. They are not relevant to the question you are asking in this thread. What I *do* care about, and what *is* relevant, is whether or not you can keep your views, whatever they are, to yourself when you've got a big fat 'i represent goonstation' sticker on you - and frankly, I am not confident in your ability to do that. Cool zone keeps coming up here not because the views you demonstrated in there were repellent to people, but because you would not shut up about them, especially when it was clear to everybody that your continued presence in the channel and your participation in conversation in that channel was making everybody miserable. That is also why you were removed from the channel - not because of your views, but because you *would not shut up about them* when you were asked to.

This inability to read the room, the refusal to sacrifice your desire to make yourself heard for the benefit of everyone else who doesn't want to hear it, and the general carelessness both of those hint at, are why 'vamp 4 mentor 2020' is an extremely hard and non-negotiable 'no' to me. My advice, which you are free to ignore, is to spend the next year or two really focussing on learning when to shut up and let a topic drop - get good at that, and maybe try this again.

[vampirate]

But wasn't the purpose of the coolzone to be able to HAVE those conversations? Like alright if you've cultivated a space where only one set of views rule then ... how is that different than what caused people to leave? I thought the whole purpose of that space was to let these discussions happen?

Also I've spent the rest of my time since then not talking politics. But I see what you're saying. I'll delete this thread at the end of the day, but I do think a discussion on the cool zone should happen. If for no other reason than to clarify the culture there, and its function.

Cause to be clear, there are people there who absolutely bully those with different opinions and make those people avoid the cool zone.

There are people there who encourage violence against certain types of people including cops.... which yall should be especially wary of given that it's a crime in certain states. I am no fan of cops, especially in America, but that shit happened almost daily. Same for Trumpers, one kid there would get visibly upset cause his parents were Trumpers and people would encourage violence against them. He left Goonstation almost entirely. I read the room, I disagreed with the room. But wasn't the point of that room to be able to have that discussion? If it was "the militant left zone" why not sell it as that isntead of "a place where people can discuss political topics" cause it's not. It's a place for people to agree on political topics.

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Fine I'll make the thread.

[Mrfishstick]

The poster of this application deleted the thread so I am going to interpret that as a withdrawal and archive the post accordingly. If this is incorrect, please let me know and I’ll restore it accordingly.