Mentorhelp Suggestion

[Morphing_Dwarf]

I think that BYOND usernames should be removed for mentorhelps for a few reasons.

-We don't need to know them

-If I know their BYOND username then I know them.

-Some people ask traitor/wizard/syndie/ling/antag questions. I don't have any problem with that, but it kind've ruins the fun of it if you already know that they are in fact an antag when they do something bad and you arrest them. Its just not as fun.

I don't know how the other mentors feel about this, so this may just be my opinion.

[Readster]

I'm not a mentor...yet but according to the wiki it's supposed to look like this:

What mentors see is dependent on whether or not the mentor is dead or alive.

If the mentor is alive, it will only show up as "Anonymous", like this:

MENTORHELP: Anonymous: I really enjoy bacon and eggs, what about you guys?

If the mentor is dead, it will show both your name and BYOND key like this:

MENTORHELP: NitrousPG/(Sham Poo): Where do i find the bridge?

Now I can't talk from first hand experience but if this isn't the case then either the wiki is wrong or the game is wrong so there is definitely a problem here.

[Morphing_Dwarf]

I'm not a mentor...yet but according to the wiki it's supposed to look like this:

What mentors see is dependent on whether or not the mentor is dead or alive.

If the mentor is alive, it will only show up as "Anonymous", like this:

MENTORHELP: Anonymous: I really enjoy bacon and eggs, what about you guys?

If the mentor is dead, it will show both your name and BYOND key like this:

MENTORHELP: NitrousPG/(Sham Poo): Where do i find the bridge?

Now I can't talk from first hand experience but if this isn't the case then either the wiki is wrong or the game is wrong so there is definitely a problem here.

Nah, its shows you there BYOND username. I don't really like it.

[Conor12]

The names let you clearly track mentorhelp conversations when two or more people mentorhelp at once.

I guess names could be toggled on/off.

[Sundance]

Totally agree.
It's metagaming to act on it, of course. But that still doesn't take away the fact that when playing as security, if i know who the byond name is, then I have an upper hand in that i know what they are planning.

Counter suggestion: Anyone playing as security/hos/detective (??), mentorhelp is disabled unless they are a ghost. Just a suggestion, don't fart on me for it

[Morphing_Dwarf]

Totally agree.
It's metagaming to act on it, of course. But that still doesn't take away the fact that when playing as security, if i know who the byond name is, then I have an upper hand in that i know what they are planning.

Counter suggestion: Anyone playing as security/hos/detective (??), mentorhelp is disabled unless they are a ghost. Just a suggestion, don't fart on me for it

I don't know about that. Maybe instead of names, we put numbers, that way the people mentorhelping can be considered numbers, and you would still be able to track conversations. Not the same number every round, but in order of who mentorhelps when.

Example

1: How do I fart?

Response to 1: *fart

2: Why was poo removed?

1:Thanks

Response to 2: Because it was shit.

[Readster]

I don't know about that. Maybe instead of names, we put numbers, that way the people mentorhelping can be considered numbers, and you would still be able to track conversations. Not the same number every round, but in order of who mentorhelps when.

Example

1: How do I fart?

Response to 1: *fart

2: Why was poo removed?

1:Thanks

Response to 2: Because it was shit.

I was just about to make the same suggestion, you beat me to it. :golfclap:

Seems like a sensible solution to the problem if you ask me, though honestly if somebody has been around long enough for you to associate a character name to their byond name, I don't imagine they are mentorhelping about how to play certain antagonists all that often
(saying that I did recently mentorhelp about vampire because damn is being a vampire rare.)

[FrontlineAcrobat4]

[quote="Morphing_Dwarf"
-Some people ask traitor/wizard/syndie/ling/antag questions. I don't have any problem with that, but it kind've ruins the fun of it if you already know that they are in fact an antag when they do something bad and you arrest them. Its just not as fun.
/quote]

This is called metagaming and if anyone actually does this using information from mentorhelp they should be banned for it. Nothing needs to be changed about mentorhelp because there are no issues with it

[Morphing_Dwarf]

I am fairly certain that none of the mentors metagame. I am just suggesting this because it makes it more fun for the mentors and the players.

[Admiral jimbob]

This is called metagaming and if anyone actually does this using information from mentorhelp they should be banned for it. Nothing needs to be changed about mentorhelp because there are no issues with it

That's not the point. I'm sure nobody does act on it, but it turns said mentor's round into an uncomfortable game of play-along. Say someone accuses the guy who mentorhelped of murder and says he saw him do it. You know that this is almost certainly a completely true story. Do you act on it? Should you? Would it be shitty? Your decision will be influenced by your meta knowledge whether you want it to be or not, unless you're some superhuman logic engine. The obvious decision is to defer to someone else and go and get drunk, but again, you wouldn't be doing that - or need to do that - if the people sending mentorhelps were just numbers. It's a bit like when I play detective and spot a traitor spawning gear early with my thermals - obviously I'm not going to charge in and arrest him, but later in the round when someone wants him investigated or thinks he's acting suspicious, I already know what he's up to and I just have to twiddle my thumbs and try not to crack down too soon. It's just not a particularly fun position to be in, I guess.

[Klayboxx]

Thing is whenever you get a mentorhelp about a vampire or a changling, you have to purposely disarm yourself from protecting against them since you're expecting it. I personally have no qualms with it but I'm sure some mentors/potential mentors would have a hard time coping. Maybe a toggle to avoid seeing mentorhelps would be nice.

[Morphing_Dwarf]

Thing is whenever you get a mentorhelp about a vampire or a changling, you have to purposely disarm yourself from protecting against them since you're expecting it. I personally have no qualms with it but I'm sure some mentors/potential mentors would have a hard time coping. Maybe a toggle to avoid seeing mentorhelps would be nice.

See but I think most mentors want to continue answering questions while security, especially if its a low pop round and you are the only mentor (Happens to me a lot). Thats why I think the number thing or some form of it should be implemented.

[Marquesas]

Frankly, I can see where you all are coming from, however, let me shed some light on this.
There are two kinds of messages in the mentorhelp system, messages that come from a mentor and messages that go to a mentor. After the initial mentorhelp, the system is unable (very rightly, it would be TERRIBLY wonky) to differentiate between the two kinds of messages; and in that case you would most likely be able to follow the entire conversation with now the mentorhelpee's key revealed. Now, honestly, most of the people whose keys are instantly recognizable are already all mentors; and those mentorhelping about fundamental problems with traitor roles are usually very new - so honestly the intersection of the two sets are very tiny. Obviously, if you have a problem with recognizable keys, they're more likely to be a mentor than not, which means that to remove your bad feelings of meta when arresting them for mischief we'd have to remove an important constructive cooperation feature.

Your problem is that you care too much. Lay back. If he had to mentorhelp about some aspects of treason, why not give him some space to practice instead?

[Morphing_Dwarf]

Frankly, I can see where you all are coming from, however, let me shed some light on this.
There are two kinds of messages in the mentorhelp system, messages that come from a mentor and messages that go to a mentor. After the initial mentorhelp, the system is unable (very rightly, it would be TERRIBLY wonky) to differentiate between the two kinds of messages; and in that case you would most likely be able to follow the entire conversation with now the mentorhelpee's key revealed. Now, honestly, most of the people whose keys are instantly recognizable are already all mentors; and those mentorhelping about fundamental problems with traitor roles are usually very new - so honestly the intersection of the two sets are very tiny. Obviously, if you have a problem with recognizable keys, they're more likely to be a mentor than not, which means that to remove your bad feelings of meta when arresting them for mischief we'd have to remove an important constructive cooperation feature.

Your problem is that you care too much. Lay back. If he had to mentorhelp about some aspects of treason, why not give him some space to practice instead?

Ok. Thanks

[Tteckk]

The mentors are suppose to be the smart/Responsible players. If anyone uses the metegaming side of the Responsibility for their own benefit then they should be banned and mentorship taken away. Other then that, if some can't help themselves then the numbers would be a good idea.