Remove captains ability to roll antag

[saccharineChampion]

I am talking about AI laws, not the goings-on of humans. The phrase you quoted even supports that the HoS is technically below the captain. Given that the AI-specific page lists HoS as being below the captain, plus that technically, the HoS is below the captain to the AI but practically above it to the crew.

[Drago156]

Yes, in general the Captain is above the HoS, but when it comes to Security matters, the HoS specifically pulls rank over the Captain, it's an exception based on circumstance, and for this specific circumstance the HoS could definitely say it's a matter of security and override the Captain. Also, no where does it specifically say that this applies to humans or silicons, so I think just dismissing it as applying to one side and not the other is an irrelevant argument to this point.

[saccharineChampion]

Yes, in general the Captain is above the HoS, but when it comes to Security matters, the HoS specifically pulls rank over the Captain, it's an exception based on circumstance, and for this specific circumstance the HoS could definitely say it's a matter of security and override the Captain.

Also, no where does it specifically say that this applies to humans or silicons, so I think just dismissing it as applying to one side and not the other is an irrelevant argument to this point.

Note "AI's Guide to Chain of Command" in the above. As for humans, "Technically, the HoS is below the captain in the command structure, but they have the final say on all matters of station security, especially the punishments given to criminals. " on The Head of Security page. This indicates a difference between what is technically correct - and what is thus the law for silicons - and what is usually followed - and thus what humans generally do. It's not in irrelevant argument, it's a critical point concerning the differences between what silicons can do and what humans can do, as well as they ought to do. This is critical because the original point is what players can do, so if there's multiple groups which can or are expected to act differently, that is relevant.

[Sundance]

Just chiming my old ass in here to say that is discussion between Cap n HoS is not a new thing, it's as old as time itself 

https://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid...ht=Captain

(Note that's the latest thread I recall, but it goes back even further)

Its been concluded (I say concluded here in very light terms) that the HoS outranks the Captain in terms of security emergency from a crew perspective however "emergency" is an intentionally vague term, as its meant to cause friction. Friction is fun and creates scenarios of potential power struggles.

"I'm the Captain, listen to me, oh weee"
"Well I'm the HoS, I've got a gun and a beret "
"Well I've got a gun too, fuck you"
*Shooting intensifies*

But in terms of the AI itself? It doesn't really follow that protocol. It follows its Asimov's laws, and the Captain is the top dog. If HoS says "call the shuttle!" And the captain says "nah" then follow the Captain's orders. 

The only time the AI doesn't follow the Captain's order is if it's in direct conflict with the first law, i.e captain orders the AI to kill someone.  The Captain could, if he wanted to, order the AI to bolt down the HoS. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but from all my time playing, I've been in scenarios where this has happened to me and the despite me grumping audibly at the audacity of the AI and threatening the AI with retribution... The AI would following orders correctly.

[Lady Birb]

My opinion on this: if the captain tries to exercise any authority on the non-rp server for any reason while there is a HoS on, then the captain should immediately be thrown in the gibber and made into delicious captain burgers.

[UrsulaMejor]

[Sundance]

When in doubt of which to bonk, trust the honk.

[Superlagg]

The crew is much more likely to listen to the HoS because the HoS cant be an antagonist. Sure they can be mindslaved (and almost always are ffs), but the fact that Sec is much less likely to murder you is reason enough not to trust the Captain with anything at all.

[vampirate]

Maybe only let the Captain roll antag if there is an HoS logged in as well? Put a lil risk to it.

[Erev]

Keep Captain antag as-is. It is always entertaining to see the Captain go evil and, honestly, it doesn't take much to get access to the same amount of the station as the Captain has.

[GORE]

Keep Captain antag as-is. It is always entertaining to see the Captain go evil and, honestly, it doesn't take much to get access to the same amount of the station as the Captain has.

Just basically the following: +1