Remove captains ability to roll antag

[Chayot]

I'd agree with Carbadox on this matter.
SEC is already immune and I think that's plenty.

As an avid SEC player, Antag-Cap is never unfun. Whether they decide to murder or do gimmicks.
Frankly, most Traitors hardly present themselves as a threat and I lavish high-ranking Traitor rounds.
Traitors need all the help they can get, they're vastly outnumbered and outgunned with SEC on their tail.

An Egun, armor and AA doesn't make them invincible. Nor too strong.
In reality, what traitor will try to murder you without a weapon?
The fact that you're unprepared is bound to happen.

I hate to echo what's been said yet it really does add to the intrigue and Mystery of any given round.
I also like Sundance's idea btw, An ominous jingle exclusive to a Traitor CAP would be cool as hell!

[GORE]

Yes...rather add a voluntary item to self-induce a harder Traitor Cap round.

[vampirate]

Perhaps add a "loyalty" factor to the caps stuff. He/she can still use the armor, but it refuses to protect him/her. The gun shocks their hand when they try to use it. Any time cap is an antag, they gotta work with "only" all access. Loyalty protocols removed with an emag. Cap can claim gun got stolen.

[GORE]

I really see no point in limitting Antag roles from Captain nor trying to make their tools not useable.
Then we should also add that the Traitor Chef cannot gib people in the gibber...and that the bartender cannot mix Neurotoxin or any other harmful chemical in the bar......just here goes an honest question.

Has an OP Antag Captain been such a major problem recently? In all of my memory I cannot pinpoint the dreaded Un-Fun of one specific round to the Antag Captain. More often than not I truely enjoy Antag Captains because they pull of some of the most blatant and obvious Traitor shenanigans and go for some goofy fun - UNTIL - security comes around and handles them.

[Carbadox]

There is that one guy that mains captain and takes the AI reset board at the beginning of every round.

[Mouse]

Perhaps have Centcomm make an announcement ~20 minutes or so into the round if there's an antag captain saying something along the lines of "while our vetting process is rigorous and far higher than required by space law, any system will inevitably produce false negatives and as such it is with regret that we inform the crew that the ranking commander of the station may have been compromised".

I dunno, just an idle thought.

[Drago156]

I mean, if you really think captain traitor is powerful, you are in woeful and blissful ignorance of what anyone in research or with enough knowledge and willpower can do in an easy 20 minutes. I think your issue here isn't the concept of traitor captain in and of itself, but rather the people that do rude stuff as traitor captain. But that's in their right as an antag now isn't it, it'll put a poor mark on your rep to just waltz into the HoP's office at roundstart as a traitor captain and just gun them down then and there with them being absolutely defenseless, but it doesn't change the fact that you can.

Let me tell you, getting a full belt of tools and space gear is easily done on just about any map, from there you can really do just about anything you desire, and I do mean anything. The only thing Captain gets is the luxury of time saving, otherwise anyone can be on par with the captain if not even more powerful should they choose to apply themself.

[GORE]

Also another point to chime in here to support the arguments of Drago,...

The really good advantage the Captain gets is for sure the control of the AI...BUT...since the HoS outranks the Captain in security things like dealing with Antags...the HoS could simply state once the Captain has been found out to ignore him and not obey to any of his commands - as he is a risk to human life.

[saccharineChampion]

Despite popular belief, the HoS does not have greater security rank in the AI's eyes over the captain.

[Technature]

They should though?

If the Captain is VERY CLEARLY being a threat to everyone else, the AI has no reason to listen to him over a Staff Assistant, let alone a person whose job it is to keep such people in check in the first place.

[saccharineChampion]

You can't follow orders that harm humans, but if somebody has the higher authority, they have that authority even if the AI's thinking they're a threat. A HoS can't just tell the AI to ignore all orders from the captain and have the AI forced to obey that ignore command, on default laws.

[Technature]

If I was an AI and sec got a Murderboner alive somehow, including a Captain, I assume that anything they tell me will inevitably result in human harm and tell them as such. Only with an escort or on someone else's command do I do something for said person.

Of course, as you mentioned, you could just brute force it with a law change saying the Captain's Orders must be ignored and what not.

[GORE]

You can't follow orders that harm humans, but if somebody has the higher authority, they have that authority even if the AI's thinking they're a threat. A HoS can't just tell the AI to ignore all orders from the captain and have the AI forced to obey that ignore command, on default laws.

Can you argue though that it is strange that the disparity between HoS and Captain is that in the crews eyes the HoS has a greater authority regarding all problems that concerns security and for the AI the Captain holds the ultimate authority?

I mean it is probably better this way that...regarding otherwise it would not be as powerful to make oneself Captain

Still strange,...

[saccharineChampion]

Technically, you should be following said captain's laws. On the other hand, I doubt that needing to do so would really get enforced by admins since they tend to be fairly interpretation-generous, just like Law 3 being not really enforced almost always.

GORE, I agree that that is strange. I also think that sort of tension is actually good - if people are aware of it. I wouldn't be surprised if most AI players assume the HoS has more security authority to the AI than the captain.

[Drago156]

Despite popular belief, the HoS does not have greater security rank in the AI's eyes over the captain.

Well you see, actually they do. As they should and as the wiki puts it:

Technically, the HoS is below the captain in the command structure, but they have the final say on all matters of station security, especially the punishments given to criminals.

Notice most importantly the ALL part of that statement, this kind of thing is particularly important in the case of HoS vs. Captain in that some bumbling baffoon in a green armored suit can't jeopardize the station's safety if an HoS takes over for matters of station security, and it can even backfire against an antagonist captain in the specific scenario we are mentioning in that the HoS can declare the Captain a major security threat and override them.