Caecilius's Mentor App (here goes nothing)

[Caecilius]

Usual character name: Ivan Ivanovsky (n.b. there are two people who use this name, I'm the bald one), Ivan Ivanovitch Ivanovsky, Antigone Pallas
BYOND username: whyiscaeciliustaken
Discord username (if you are on our discord):  SunTzuSaidThat#3754
Recommended by (if applicable): N/A
Goon servers you play: 2, 1 very rarely.

Reason for application + game experience (300 word minimum): 
When I started playing in April, I knew next to nothing (obviously), and didn't even know mentorhelp existed (nobody had ever actually told me). I had to figure out pretty much everything from the very basics up to and including doctoring, chemistry and construction, toxins and genetics etc. I've come a long way since then, and now I've played every job and learned them all to a decent standard. I can hellburn the engine up to the hundreds of terrawatts, taught a couple of people including Dirty Dan how to do the same and I can build mechcomp machines such as teleporter networks. I've found a around 4-5 secret chems (admittedly mostly easy ones), can make TTVs that go boom rather respectably, and have pretty much every aspect of medical down, sorta including pathology (I can DO it, just not very quickly or efficiently). I've also taught plenty of people things ranging from the VERY basics for brand new players to hellburning and toxins for people coming over from /tg/. Now that I've improved myself significantly, I enjoy showing people how to do things. It might be a little frustrating if it takes them a while, but the moment when it clicks for them and you see them able to do it not just at that moment, but also with far more confidence the next round. It's not just that, but also remembering the frustration with which I had to learn, say, genetics from the wiki and my own initiative and knowing that I can help someone else avoid having to go through that experience (especially with pathology; to be perfectly honest, the wiki guide to it is very confusing and poorly laid out, with important information being fragmented between the two separate guides so you never know where to look) also brings satisfaction. While there are a couple of things I'm still getting the hang of (While I can work the telescience computer just fine I haven't spend much time in adventure zones, and I will admit anything beyond the very basics of packet nerdery eludes me), I'd like to help newbies earn their stripes and being able to answer their questions remotely instead of having to be in the same round at the same time, and also being able to safely answer things like "Why is there a big red R above my head?" without spoiling the round for everyone else.

Feedback is also appreciated if you say no.


Previous bans (while this will not affect your application lying about it will):
none

[pali6]

At one point I managed to get a friend of mine to try out ss13. He played a few rounds with me and a few without. Later he mentioned to me how a certain Ivan Ivanovsky showed him around and helped him a lot! I've only had positive experiences with you and your application looks solid too.

+1 from me

[WhatATerribleUserName]

I've had some good positive experiences with Ivan in the past. They seem fairly helpful and nice to new players. I'd give them a purple coat of paint.

[Caecilius]

It's just a little ask, but if you're looking at my application and abstaining, I'd appreciate it if you told me why/gave me feedback. Even something like "I don't know you well enough" is helpful, as I'd like to know how to improve myself regardless of whether or not this application is successful. Thanks.

[AleksAdamska]

I've seen Ivan Ivanovsky in-game a lot, and while it can be a bit confusing because of the doppelganger, I think I have the right person when I say I'm going to abstain from this for now. I think Caec is generally a good player, but there've been some moments that've given me pause in OOC or deadchat where they were a little bit shitty towards someone for being ignorant. These incidents are few and far between, but I haven't personally seen enough of the opposite for me to give this a +1.

[Caecilius]

I've seen Ivan Ivanovsky in-game a lot, and while it can be a bit confusing because of the doppelganger, I think I have the right person when I say I'm going to abstain from this for now. I think Caec is generally a good player, but there've been some moments that've given me pause in OOC or deadchat where they were a little bit shitty towards someone for being ignorant. These incidents are few and far between, but I haven't personally seen enough of the opposite for me to give this a +1.

I will admit that I remember one such incident. One thing that stretches my patience is pretending to know what you're doing out of pride when you really don't. It helps nobody, least yourself, and makes you look foolish (I should know, I did it for a short while myself and was fooled into thinking that a canbomb was herbicide.) In this particular incident I discovered while dead that the entirety of the rest of medbay had tried to do this. Had they asked me any time in the past forty minutes I would have showed them, but instead they ended up looking foolish and left several players stuck in dead chat for the rest of the round. I was somewhat salty in dead chat I admins, but that was months ago. I reckon I would have reacted differently had it happened say last week..

[OMJ]

yes i would say

[Couturier]

I'm afraid I have to abstain from this one.. I don't recall any interactions between Ivan Ivanovsky and myself, though the good words put in by fellow mentors is very encouraging.

[Clean Your Teeth]

I've seen Ivan helping out new players with the basics & showing them the more interesting stuff on a number of occasions, and they seem like a decent & reasonable player whenever I've interacted with them myself, so I'd give them a +1 for what it's worth

[Tribaja]

I have abstained since now, but I thought it would be helpful to add my 2 cents to this.

Caecilius handed me a confirmed traitor to do with as I wanted. I build a room for him in the public market of cog1 with a system that allowed the crew to throw a screwdriver at the traitor to decide his fate. I didn't reinforce this room completely and it would have been a welder + wrench way to get him out, but alas, the public market got bombed. I rescued him from there and tried building another one at escape and then the arrival shuttle arrived and I took him with us on the shuttle. I admit that this was sadistic, not really fun for the traitor etc. but it was all within the rules.

Caecilius among many others didn't like this one bit it seemed, but Caecilius said after the round in OOC chat that "If I did something like that again he'll kill me for it". To me, this displays a disregard for the rules of the server as that would be something that is outside the rules. I understand not liking the things somebody does and that's all fine and good, I can be a sadistic assholes at times, but I'm always playing within the rules, if it is allowed in the rules it really doesn't justify a response of 1. promising to kill someone who is not an antag for doing something they don't like and 2. promising to metagrudge. Caecilius was the only one with this kind of response despite many others not liking what I did, which as I stated is fine, but disregarding the rules while applying for mentor isn't something I'm thrilled about.

So it's a no from me.

[Studenterhue]

I think I'll hold my vote for you. Normally, I'd say Yes; I'd say you've proven yourself both knowledgeable about game mechanics and trustworthy enough not to metagame. Though I don't recall any you-should-be-a-mentor moments like pali6, I don't recall any bad moments either like Tribaja. (Also, tangent: I really don't like the state of the Pathology guides either; the fact that there's two guides that are fairly similar to each other, with gaps in content for each, absolutely bugs me.)

That said, Wonkmin's concern about your admin policies on Beestation is really holding me back. I know that mentors and admins have different duties and expectations, but like Wonkmin, I'm not exactly comfortable with someone running a server where bigoted language is allowed. I'm not accusing you of being a bigot yourself. I know a few tgstation players who loathe the awful things the players throw around, and there's a possibility you could be among them.

[Caecilius]

I have some concerns about your adminship on Beestation.

Your host proudly explains that Beestation "does not censor anything". While that is all well and good, being an admin for a server that is happy for any horrendous language to be thrown around shows a tolerance and tacit approval for such language. With our language stance here, I'm not sure how we can have someone on our staff structure - even as a mentor - that shows clear approval of bigoted and racist language.

I welcome your thoughts on this.

I have several things to say. Firstly, no I absolutely do not approve of the use of slurs and other similar words under any circumstances. If you looked at my application there you would have noticed that I applied to administrate on the MRP server, which does not have language rules anywhere near as free as the main one. I have no influence on policy on either.

Secondly, Quertyquerty, up until about a week ago head Dev and cohost there (thus having enormous influence on policy) is a mentor here last time I checked . Why am I an issue and he isn't?

Thirdly, you yourself preceed the introduction of rule four and were an admin before it was introduced, and by your own admission in an interview with Texicus, the admins then not only tolerated what would be now a breach of rule four, but also engaged in it themselves. Yet you still retain your position despite, by your own logic, having shown clear approval of bigoted language.

[Caecilius]

I have abstained since now, but I thought it would be helpful to add my 2 cents to this.

Caecilius handed me a confirmed traitor to do with as I wanted. I build a room for him in the public market of cog1 with a system that allowed the crew to throw a screwdriver at the traitor to decide his fate. I didn't reinforce this room completely and it would have been a welder + wrench way to get him out, but alas, the public market got bombed. I rescued him from there and tried building another one at escape and then the arrival shuttle arrived and I took him with us on the shuttle. I admit that this was sadistic, not really fun for the traitor etc. but it was all within the rules.

Caecilius among many others didn't like this one bit it seemed, but Caecilius said after the round in OOC chat that "If I did something like that again he'll kill me for it". To me, this displays a disregard for the rules of the server as that would be something that is outside the rules. I understand not liking the things somebody does and that's all fine and good, I can be a sadistic assholes at times, but I'm always playing within the rules, if it is allowed in the rules it really doesn't justify a response of 1. promising to kill someone who is not an antag for doing something they don't like and 2. promising to metagrudge. Caecilius was the only one with this kind of response despite many others not liking what I did, which as I stated is fine, but disregarding the rules while applying for mentor isn't something I'm thrilled about.

So it's a no from me.

Several things.
Firstly, I repeatedly told you to stop, and even let him out twice. Both times you stole him back and forced him back into your chamber. Second, I said that I would kill anyone who did that again because I genuinely couldn't believe that someone would do that as a nonantag. The admin on at the time (SageAcrin I think) backed me up and said that it was a reasonable assumption to make that you were a traitor. Act like a traitor, get treated like one.
Thirdly, I never said that I would metagrudge you, that is a bald faced lie because I logged off immediately after SageAcrin(?) spoke.

[Tribaja]

I have abstained since now, but I thought it would be helpful to add my 2 cents to this.

Caecilius handed me a confirmed traitor to do with as I wanted. I build a room for him in the public market of cog1 with a system that allowed the crew to throw a screwdriver at the traitor to decide his fate. I didn't reinforce this room completely and it would have been a welder + wrench way to get him out, but alas, the public market got bombed. I rescued him from there and tried building another one at escape and then the arrival shuttle arrived and I took him with us on the shuttle. I admit that this was sadistic, not really fun for the traitor etc. but it was all within the rules.

Caecilius among many others didn't like this one bit it seemed, but Caecilius said after the round in OOC chat that "If I did something like that again he'll kill me for it". To me, this displays a disregard for the rules of the server as that would be something that is outside the rules. I understand not liking the things somebody does and that's all fine and good, I can be a sadistic assholes at times, but I'm always playing within the rules, if it is allowed in the rules it really doesn't justify a response of 1. promising to kill someone who is not an antag for doing something they don't like and 2. promising to metagrudge. Caecilius was the only one with this kind of response despite many others not liking what I did, which as I stated is fine, but disregarding the rules while applying for mentor isn't something I'm thrilled about.

So it's a no from me.

Several things.
Firstly, I repeatedly told you to stop, and even let him out twice. Both times you stole him back and forced him back into your chamber. Second, I said that I would kill anyone who did that again because I genuinely couldn't believe that someone would do that as a nonantag. The admin on at the time (SageAcrin I think) backed me up and said that it was a reasonable assumption to make that you were a traitor. Act like a traitor, get treated like one.
Thirdly, I never said that I would metagrudge you, that is a bald faced lie because I logged off immediately after SageAcrin(?) spoke.

I was pretty high at the time so I won't dispute your view of things. People can take what I wrote for what it is based on that information, this is how I saw and remember the situation. It's why I didn't post it earlier, but felt it warranted after Wonkmin's input. The metagrudge point was inferred from the view I had that you specifically made the comment towards me.


But I have to wonder how it would have been okay for you to kill me in that situation anyways since it was you who told me that he was a traitor and to do with him as I wished. As I said at the time, I could have gone to the nearest airlock and tossed him out and that would have been okay as well, it wouldn't really have been different from valid hunting. Shitty, yes, but still killing a valid target.

Now I would understand that it would have been a valid reason to suspect I was antag if I had been the one to catch him and continue on my own, but you were the one as a security officer who told me he was a traitor when you handed him to me. At that point, anything I did with him was fair game, even if it was unfun and you wouldn't have been justified you killed me for it as you knew that I wasn't killing a non-antag crew member.

But anyways, this is how I saw the situation and people can take it how they want. I do admit that I could have mentioned that my recollection of the events may not be the most reliable in the first post, but the situation that led to me getting him I am certain about as I just happened to walk into the crew quarters and ran into you randomly.

[Caecilius]

I have some concerns about your adminship on Beestation.

Your host proudly explains that Beestation "does not censor anything". While that is all well and good, being an admin for a server that is happy for any horrendous language to be thrown around shows a tolerance and tacit approval for such language. With our language stance here, I'm not sure how we can have someone on our staff structure - even as a mentor - that shows clear approval of bigoted and racist language.

I welcome your thoughts on this.

I have several things to say. Firstly, no I absolutely do not approve of the use of slurs and other similar words under any circumstances. If you looked at my application there you would have noticed that I applied to administrate on the MRP server, which does not have language rules anywhere near as free as the main one. I have no influence on policy on either.

Secondly, Quertyquerty, up until about a week ago head Dev and cohost there (thus having enormous influence on policy) is a mentor here last time I checked . Why am I an issue and he isn't?

Thirdly, you yourself preceed the introduction of rule four and were an admin before it was introduced, and by your own admission in an interview with Texicus, the admins then not only tolerated what would be now a breach of rule four, but also engaged in it themselves. Yet you still retain your position despite, by your own logic, having shown clear approval of bigoted language.

Thanks! 

Firstly, I'm sorry but regardless of whether it's MRP or LRP it's not going to fly. Last night I visited both servers and saw an astonishing amount of racism. Qwerty can back this up.

Querty has been dementored since this came to our attention.

Finally, the culture of the server half a decade ago (if not longer) is not relevant to what we have here now and how we enforce the rules currently. People grow and develop and change - you cannot hold someone accountable for their edgy teenage years if they change - as we have.

May I ask what the point of asking me my thoughts if you intended to veto anyway? Or are you forcing a choice of one or the other? 

I'd also like to know what exact damage you think I'll do in a mentor position. Qwerty as you said had it for a long time and did nothing wrong in that position. There are people who came back from permanent bans who became mentors. Why is my failure to bring about a radical change in policy in five days from a junior position worthy of a veto? Ask anyone who has played with me if they feel I came anywhere near breaking rule four at any point. I've always followed it to the letter. At least poll the other admins or mentors first.