Replace the Lawgiver's HE shot with a flashbang+.

[AleksAdamska]

Some people in the discord have expressed concern over the HoS having a reliable, always on them HE explosive, which I somewhat agree with. It's a little boring, and I think replacing it with something like a flashbang + sorium combo for extreme crowd control could be quite fun.

[Tarmunora]

Would probably be good to reduce the power cost to 100-160 then, but overall good idea

[UrsulaMejor]

crowd dispersal, but literally

[saccharineChampion]

I'm a fan of both changing it, and of this idea for a replacement in particular. Simple explosives, meh, a silly, niche, fun, yet useful replacement? Heck yeah +1

[AleksAdamska]

An addendum, because I do quite like the HE round's ability to blow through walls, maybe it shouldn't be completely removed but be tweaked so it does a lot more damage to walls than it does people? Just a thought.

[moistgrandmas42]

The lawgiver is an interesting item, but most of the time I hardly see any mode other than execute being used. Detain is unreliable, and most of the other shots cost to utility is out of whack. Knockout is mostly useless. Flare has some niche use against lings, but most of the time you probably won't have time to switch. Clownshot is clownshot.

That said, I don't really see bigshot as that big of a deal given that the hos has riot launcher and the armory grenades at their disposal if they need to use it. Given that it has a flash bang mode already, it seems fine as is. If it becomes an issue it might be worth looking into, but up until now it hasn't been that much of a problem.

[OMJ]

no from me. The HE is there for a reason

[Adhara In Space]

give the lawgiver a handcuff shot

[saccharineChampion]

The HE is there for a reason, I just don't think it's a very good reason.

The more high-impact stuff the Lawbringer has, the more it detracts from the armory's specialness and intensity. Why care much about breaking out the big stuff if your all-in-one gun can be the big stuff the moment you need it?

[UrsulaMejor]

I dislike the existence of a function on a HoS gun that's basically just the "I win" button; point blank an antagonist with it to permanently erase them from the round. If you want that power, you should actually have to walk to the armory and pull out the grenades there and load them.

The walk to the armory gives you the opportunity to fully consider whether or not you *really* need to bust out that power, and also gives the antagonist time to prepare for your return with heavier weaponry.

It's been generally frowned upon for a long time to, as HoS, load up on armory gear at time start and powergame with the lethals, but the Lawgiver basically starts you out holding the armory in your belt. It's just a bad direction to take the role imo, and "well the HoS isn't supposed to be acting that way" isn't an excuse imo, because we're only human and it is often the case that game design influences the choices we make more than the other way around.

If you wanna carry around lethal grenades with you everywhere, go to the armory and grab them. we don't need it as part of the standard kit. I would much rather the lawgiver be fun and unique stuff that actually adds utility rather than just more ways to kill people.

[MagicStudiosGuy]

You could always have a HE Lawgiver and a Flashbang Lawgiver as 2 seperate Job Rewards. You can only have one (assuming you don't come across more energy guns)

[Caecilius]

If the HE shot is to be changed, I don't see how it's possible to change it and also keep BOTH crowd control and wall damage, and so I have two possible suggestions.

1: Replace the HE shot with a ketamine smoke shell. It keeps the whole "powerful but high energy cost" aspect (ketamine keeps people down for ages) as well as offering crowd control, but without the ability to just instantly win a fight with no counter because the antag can still either use calomel/pentetic acid or try to kill the HoS in the window ketamine offers to act before it KOs.

2: Nerf the HE to HEDP shot from the nukeops grenade launcher. It does significant structural damage but far less player damage (delimbs instead of flat out gibbing), and reduce the energy cost significantly, allowing structural damage whilst removing the "screw you I win" factor.

[AleksAdamska]

Oh, Cecilius, I should clarify that I didn't mean keep the wall damage as part of the flashbang+ thing, I meant as a separate mode - just toning down the explosion.

[Caecilius]

So more or less exactly what I meant with option two then? HEDP rather than the one click instant win that it HE?

[KikiMofo]

I haven't played since this lawgiver thing was added to HoS equipment. I assume it replaces the Egun? Well I would say HoS doesn't need a fucking explosive at round start that isn't in the armory. As much fun as I would imagine that would be on Ass Day I think every round that isn't Ass Day would have no use for an explosive shot. If someone REALLY needs an explosive shot they should go to the armory and put a pod seeker into a riot launcher and then shoot someone with it but even then I see no need for that even if you are fighting a changeling that would be pretty rude. Maybe only against Syndies would I do something like that outside of Ass Day.

Anyway rant over. My opinion is no one needs an explosive shooting gun in any normal rounds.