Stop Head-Spider host suicides

[Starborn]

Changelings can head-spider for a reason. It's a biological ability that gives them a second chance if it manages to get to someone without getting beaten into oblivion. Now, with all the precursors to actually getting your head off your body and into another entity, isn't it a little unfair that your opponent can simply suicide to get rid of it? The person suiciding has nothing to lose anyway, so suiciding is just a way to put the changeling out of the round. It's unfair and not sporting to users who have been deemed worthy of a second chance by the RNG. Please remove, or at least nerf, a players ability to suicide when they're host to a head-spider. Thanks.

[Vitatroll]

Headspider is a crapshoot.

Honestly this sounds kneejerky, but it isn't without merit, so I'll avoid saying "Naaah" out of reflex. Blocking the *suicide verb is reasonable. Blocking suicide, I feel, is unreasonable.

A few ways I see to go about this:
- Allow *suicide and *succumb verbs, but *succumb instantly gives changeling control over said body - damage and all. 'Dizziness', among other bodily limitations, along with a *suicide failure rate, could limit the 'find a firelock' solution.
- Completely block *suicide and make them get inventive. Using *succumb could be blocked or same as above. This could lead to !!FUN!! for observers and participants alike.
- Leave it alone, because Headspider is a crapshoot.

[Sov]

Headspider is a crapshoot.

Honestly this sounds kneejerky, but it isn't without merit, so I'll avoid saying "Naaah" out of reflex. Blocking the *suicide verb is reasonable. Blocking suicide, I feel, is unreasonable.

Personally, I think that suiciding for headspider is an unfun meta way to play

My thoughts on how I would like it to work...The headspider has crawled into you, it hasn't yet taken full control but it should have influence on the hosts behavior. Attempts at suicide should have the host finding that they can't bring themselves to do so

Succumbing actually actually speeds up the conversion process instead of ending it. You might have given up on life, but the spider didn't. Instead you just voluntarily handed over the wheel

Allowing the host to die via methods other than being lit on fire should act similar to succumbing - with the notable exception of the crusher and gibbing

People should be encouraged to try and surgically remove the spider, crush the host, or otherwise imprison them while they still can. While at the very same time finding themselves quite invested in the victims life - at least until.the spider is dealt with.

Bring in a sense of urgency, not just some meta fun killing suicide

[warcrimes]

I was mulling over a response but Sov actually covered exactly how i felt.

Just adding a +1 to any form of non-gibbing death just gives the parasite instant control, including the Russian, etc - because you're really just removing your agency from a pile of perfectly usable biological material.

And of course Gibber, Crusher, Smelter, etc should still work. Perhaps make a meatcube that the headspider controls at that point for flavor.

[Xeram]

When did this change. I distinctly remember that if you were headspidered by an active changeling your suicide verb was disabled saying some foreign entity was preventing you from doing so. People specifically would break into a mad sprint for the crusher to protect the crew if they couldn't reach an operating room and it became an amusing race between how fast the clown could get to the crusher before the ling took over its brain.

[Noah Buttes]

When did this change. I distinctly remember that if you were headspidered by an active changeling your suicide verb was disabled saying some foreign entity was preventing you from doing so. People specifically would break into a mad sprint for the crusher to protect the crew if they couldn't reach an operating room and it became an amusing race between how fast the clown could get to the crusher before the ling took over its brain.

It's commented out in the 2016 code release:
https://github.com/goonstation/goonstati...ide.dm#L91

https://github.com/goonstation/goonstati...b.dm#L1225

[Vitatroll]

Personally, I think that suiciding for headspider is an unfun meta way to play

Welcome to latterday goonstation!

Outside of ethos we don't exactly disagree, unless I was lacking in clarity.

A few ways I see to go about this:
- Allow *suicide and *succumb verbs, but *succumb instantly gives changeling control over said body - damage and all. 'Dizziness', among other bodily limitations, along with a *suicide failure rate, could limit the 'find a firelock' solution.
- Completely block *suicide and make them get inventive. Using *succumb could be blocked or same as above. This could lead to !!FUN!! for observers and participants alike.
- Leave it alone, because Headspider is a crapshoot.

A few ways I see to go about this:
Option 1) Allow suicide and succumb. Make *suicide darn hard to do, and make *succumb give your body to the ling.
Option 2) Completely block *suicide. Make *succumb give your body to the ling. Can still suicide, just not *suicide.
Option 3) Leave it alone, because Headspider is a crapshoot.

I also find Option 3) reasonable, as you have the current lower-pop crews fighting against lings more powerful than ever, excepting that time they were practically invincible for some reason. As for removing a headspider, I've seen that done around 5 times. All of them in medbay, save maybe one if I didn't dream it.

[Ed Venture]

This is onpar with people owlgibbing when they got caught by a changeling or vampires. Which everyone agreed was shit and metagaming. I agree with Starborn this needs to be changed.

[KikiMofo]

I agree with Ed. Suiciding after getting headspidered is like owl gibbing except with owlgibbing you need prep but with suicide all you need is to type out *suicide

[Ed Venture]

I agree with Ed. Suiciding after getting headspidered is like owl gibbing except with owlgibbing you need prep but with suicide all you need is to type out *suicide

For the record you can no longer owlgib while having your blood sucked or while being absorbed. You also can't suicide while getting your blood sucked.

[warcrimes]

Biblefarting is still the most powerful meta

[Technature]

Agreed completely. Unless you have the foresight to bring a bible or you're able to sprint to the crusher in your (likely) very damaged state, there should be no reason the thing slowly taking control of your body should let you die, and this is a pretty shitty thing that happens.

[cyberTripping]

gonna go ahead and add my name to the agreement pile

[KikiMofo]

Headspiders should make it impossible for you to talk or suicide. I mean the spider is down their throat ain't it?

[Frank_Stein]

Honestly, we oughta get around to reworking headspider mechanics in the first place