State Of The Goonion - Communication is key!

[Ed Venture]

This was what I was talking about you did not read everything I said in that discussion which went on for over two hours at that point. Is this what it comes down to? Cherry picking? Fine I will screencap everything I said on discord that showed I was excited for this change.

[Huff H Law]

This was what I was talking about you did not read everything I said in that discussion which went on for over two hours at that point. If this what it comes down to? Cherry picking? Fine I will screencap everything I said on discord that showed I was excited for this change.

How about we not make this into a slapfight and you just take my explanation for why you're treated this way seriously?

[Ed Venture]

This was what I was talking about you did not read everything I said in that discussion which went on for over two hours at that point. If this what it comes down to? Cherry picking? Fine I will screencap everything I said on discord that showed I was excited for this change.

How about we not make this into a slapfight and you just take my explanation for why you're treated this way seriously?

Those question mean what they say and I've explained them enough in that post. If you are reading into them and reading something that is not there then that is on you not me. Like I said in the PMs I'm sick of you picking and choosing and lying about things I say without having all the context.

Here's more context. Someone said that I hate everything I asked for examples and they could not give me any. Dions talked about a change for Janitors that was coming soon and it was hinted at being Jaintor cruisers to which she later said she was kidding.
https://imgur.com/a/f4uj7

[Frank_Stein]

To be fair, I weirdly made a thread on the suggestions page that suggested this very idea that I had no clue was already being worked on, so there was technically a chance to talk about it beforehand

[Huff H Law]

To be fair, I weirdly made a thread on the suggestions page that suggested this very idea that I had no clue was already being worked on, so there was technically a chance to talk about it beforehand

Yeah fair enough. I honestly don't see the point of doing that, though.

[Ed Venture]

You only treated me that way cause you read only that post and not what I said completely. What I said there was not me saying "I hate this idea" it was me asking for more insight and a explanation to why there was no communication when we were told communication would be getting better. If you bothered to read what I said on the fluid change itself this would have never happened. That comment again was me asking ""What fun do you think this will bring?" "Why was nothing said about it?" You told me in PMs that getting feedback before a project is added would bring nothing but negative comments their way but so far other than lag the reception to this idea has been vastly positive.

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My issue in this thread is not the fluid change itself but on how we were told communication would get better when after that experience with you and the coder in the chat it seems to have gotten far worse.

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Me asking coders "What fun do you think this will bring?" is not me saying "I don't think this has any chance of being fun why did you add it to the game?!" and asking "What's the goals you have for this idea?" is not me asking "How did you think it was a good idea to put this in the game?"

Okay what do these questions then mean?

Seems more like you're heavily implying this is a bad addition that you hate. And not, as you say, just a question. Your tedious and frequently insulting tone is what nets you the negative feedback from us, not any lack of willingness from us to talk to players.

I don't exactly regret asking you why you still play on our servers if this is your attitude towards pretty much everything. Hope this explains every question you had!

I only took this tone cause my questions were ignored two times before that. That was the only time I got vastly annoyed about this before you chimed in. I put in a better effort in asking those same questions in this thread here as getting a response here seemed more likely then directly talking to any of you on there. It's funny you bring up my negative tone when it's something I barely indulge in these days and you and that coder have been seen treated players like trash in recent days. You just say you only talk to people like that when they do it to you first but in PMs you said you only talk down to people cause you are honest with your feelings. So something you criticize me for is something you do quite a bit yourself. At least that coder listen to people's complaints about him and seems to be doing better when talking to people.

[Frank_Stein]

To be fair, I weirdly made a thread on the suggestions page that suggested this very idea that I had no clue was already being worked on, so there was technically a chance to talk about it beforehand

Yeah fair enough. I honestly don't see the point of doing that, though.

I'm mostly saying this as just like, both that it could have been mentioned in that thread AND people who had anything to say about the idea of fluid mechanics could have said something in that thread at the time it was still unlocked.

I'm personally of the opinion that big changes like pulls getting tweaked and this current one are better off implemented and then tweaked afterwards, since actual gameplay user feedback is going to end up being more valuable than constantly holding the idea back until everyone has had their say about it.

[ZeWaka]

EDIT: Me asking coders "What fun do you think this will bring?" is not me saying "I don't think this has any chance of being fun why did you add it to the game?!" and asking "What's the goals you have for this idea?" is not me asking "How did you think it was a good idea to put this in the game?"

One thing I find amusing is you haven't even named the feature. It could be the new mint plants for all I know.

I'm open for questions any time on IRC if I'm around, or reply to me here.

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I'm personally of the opinion that big changes like pulls getting tweaked and this current one are better off implemented and then tweaked afterwards, since actual gameplay user feedback is going to end up being more valuable than constantly holding the idea back until everyone has had their say about it.

Yeah, I agree with you. We've actually had rudimentary fluid coded for months, but it was recently picked back up. Lots of the bugs, we didn't encounter in local testing nor testing on our dev server. Therefore, we didn't even know half of the bugs existed until the players found them.

[Ed Venture]

I did not think I really needed to honestly. But again the fluid change was never the main point of these posts. Which was mainly on how I was treated badly for just wanting to know what some coders wanted out of this change before I went and gave them mountains of feedback. Knowing where they wanted to take it would make it easier to give them feedback while keeping what they tell me in mind. Hufflaw focused on the one time I was negative in that Two hour discussion and tried to paint it like that's how I was the whole discussion and in this thread tried to paint it like I am like that all the time. Again cause it will most likely be brought up again. That was the only time I took a negative tone cause my questions were ignored twice and the first two times I did put them in a respectful manner.

On my attitude I feel like I improved quite well on that front since last year and barely had any issues, if I had any issues at all with the coders on changes in the last few months. What comes to mind was the pull nerf and quite frankly with how long it took for our feedback to be taken into consideration and how we were told by the coder who made it that we wasted our time after waiting almost five months for any change at all. My poor attitude towards that change was well deserve and not even the worst example of how some reacted to the coder once he said that. You say it's how I am on everything but give no examples or context like always.

People always remember the bad things you've done but never remember when you try to change or make something right. I've had good talks with coders before and still do to this day, I tell coders thank you for changes I like or for just replying to a .tell on irc. I feel at this point the times I've been positive with coders outweigh the negative times. Coders constantly say they feel unappreciated so I at least try to thank them when they do something that makes me happy. But no one remembers or brings up those times. So many times since May of this year have I looked at the changelog and sent a .tell to the coder who posted it saying "thank you for the change/fix and for your hard work".

So if anything is to be learned from this it's that don't make smug comments at people without having all the context. Frankly implications and assumptions are dumb. If I don't openly say something on anything then I don't mean what you think I mean. Stop reading words that are not there. Pretty frustrating when I say I like something and then a admin shows up telling everyone I hate a thing and that I should leave goonstation cause I don't like anything.

EDIT:Went and added the word "Fluid Change" to sentences in my posts to avoid any confusion.

[Vitatroll]

Yeah. Mint is horrible.

[Wire]

I'm personally of the opinion that big changes like pulls getting tweaked and this current one are better off implemented and then tweaked afterwards, since actual gameplay user feedback is going to end up being more valuable than constantly holding the idea back until everyone has had their say about it.

I know Ed is talking about how he was treated in some irc/discord discussion or whatever, but with regards to the ancillary issue of fluids not having been discussed prior to implementation: this is generally my opinion on that. Fluids definitely fall into the "value added" feature category as opposed to the sort of "mechanic change/nerf" that pull speed reduction, for example, entailed. As a result, I view discussion on the two very differently and agree that communication should be less "should we do thing" and more "now that you have played with thing, what should change about thing". Additionally aside from the rough few rounds when it was enabled initially and caused a butt load of lag, there are no real drawbacks to having this feature "imposed" on you. With regards to communication-after-the-fact, there is already a general fluids thread in ideas that is getting good back and forth between players and coders, so I don't see an overall issue with communication stemming from this change. Again this is all with regards to forum posting and in-game chat, and not irc or discord stuff that I haven't reviewed at this point.

[Frank_Stein]

I wanted to say, between widescreen, chat changes, and the new item action ui change, I think a very good stride has been found in game changes, user feedback, and changes to address feedback.

[Cyfarfod]

Thread derailment, self-censoring.

[Ed Venture]

(BEGONE DUMB POST)

[Cyfarfod]

Thread derailment, self-censoring.