Security - The Thread

[Ed Venture]

Not even a month ago I was seeing players on these very forums saying "I want Security to crack down on antags and I want antags to get real punishment for getting caught like in the old days" I've come to the conclusion that nobody know what they want.

I agree that cogmap 1's brig is trash though.

[CaptainBravo]

I've come to the conclusion that nobody know what they want.

you win the prize

fuck people who suicide, fuck people who defend that practice. in general fuck people who can't wait five goddamn minutes. five REAL minutes. they're not even BYOND minutes anymore. grow up you bunch of fucking babies.

[Vitatroll]

Hey, hey. I know what I want. I just happen to be a moderate through average of extremes.

My positions:
- Rule of cool. Give the antag leeway if they're incredibly entertaining or ingenious.
- Kill rampagers. A staff assistant shouldn't have more leeway in dealing with rampagers than sec.
- Soft on nonviolent crime. Why would you arrest the roboticist for making an assload of emagged buttbots and installing emagged cyberhearts? Because yer lame, that's why.
- Punishment befitting the crime. Sure, arrest the drunken nudist. He enjoys the attention anyways. Killing the clown because she lubed a few things? Fuck you.

The only thing I can say about sec is what I've said for a long while; arresting people doesn't work anymore. We ain't donut. It's not the brig's fault. A 5 minute timeout to a person who's gonna resume their activities is pointless and a waste of everyone's time.

I'm up for some sort of enforced parole. A brainwashing machine in sec that removes antag status for a while, or something.

[Crazyabe]

- Punishment befitting the crime.

Related to that, little while back I was a Nonantag Clown who made a Freeze thrower, and for freezeing a few people(including one guy who died from the barman's death drinks soon after...) the HOS that was Playing CUT OFF ONE OF MY LEGS after STORING ME IN A BRIG THAT HAD LOST ALL OF ITS AIR. Some sec's are just a Bit shit these days...

[Ed Venture]

- Punishment befitting the crime.

Related to that, little while back I was a Nonantag Clown who made a Freeze thrower, and for freezeing a few people(including one guy who died from the barman's death drinks soon after...) the HOS that was Playing CUT OFF ONE OF MY LEGS after STORING ME IN A BRIG THAT HAD LOST ALL OF ITS AIR. Some sec's are just a Bit shit these days...

I don't know going around and throwing chems at people sounds pretty shit as well. I mean its even said in the wiki that testing chems on people can get you yelled at or worse.

---

Plus we don't know how long you were doing it or how many times you were asked to stop by the crew and security. Plus hate to assume I bet when security came for you, you choose to freeze them instead of complying. So I bet they took your leg over how annoying the situation had become.

[Sundance]

..stay on...topic.. *twitch

What I find particularly facepalmy of this whole discussion is that you're all going about a position that is in fact fluid. People play sec differently. They should be allowed to. In fact, security etiquette should be allowed for freedom of choice. 

There should be a space law book, yet you should be able to dramatically rip it in two. You might rough up your prisoner for talk back and deprive him of communication but a lawyer or nosy AI may state your business. You might disagree at your fellow officer's methods of removing the eyeballs of the clown, and you might show him the end of your taser in the process.

Conflict is fun. We need to enable security to allow them to run into interesting situations. A fun designed brig that isnt "tear your hair out" levels of onesided-ness to the prisoner is one. Bringing in an optional space law is another (you may choose to follow it, others may not, prisoners may invoke it, etc). The brig should double as function as a stopover for other punishments; shock colors, stockades, weak tracking implants, bond machines, weird luduvico technique devices, etc.
I think you get my point.

[Ed Venture]

Though putting you in a airless brig is a serious oversight. He either did not notice or care at that point.

[Frank_Stein]

I'm going to try taking a crack at that law book

[Ed Venture]

I'm going to try taking a crack at that law book

We already have a space law book though. Believe it's on lljk1 though. Like I said in the other thread on that subject that its important that its clear the book is just a guide line not set in stone rules for the role.

[Maegor]

Conflict is fun.

I agree, this game needs conflict to be interesting, killling the antag early on removes that. This game is very similar to a movie in that way.
Imagine in the alien movie, that when they are attacked by a facehugger, they incinerate it immediately and go on their happy lives, with the rest of the movie being them sleeping in stasis or having small talk about the stars.
Or on the Lord of the rings, what if they simply ordered the eagles to destroy it (There is a reason why, I just do not remember) and the movie is now about the hobbits daily lives, including the exact time of all breakfasts!
This is a game, people are supposed to have fun on it. Antags are people too, they also want to have fun (which is better if it is fun to other people as well)

[lambskin]

Coming back from the dead to say I pretty much agree with everything sundance has said. It's also worth noting that sundance is one of the best Heads of Security that I have had the pleasure of being arrested by. So much so that I would usually resist less if he arrested me, since I knew we would have a fun exchange in the brig. Hell, sometimes these fun moments would happen even if I was rampaging to an extent. If I knew that a "take no shit" officer or head was playing then I would silently murder them early on in the round, or just make their life as difficult as possible if I got arrested.

[Ed Venture]

Conflict is fun.

I agree, this game needs conflict to be interesting, killling the antag early on removes that. This game is very similar to a movie in that way.

Completely agree with this. For years I've had my antag rounds ruined by getting caught in the first five minutes. Be it from a random person or a antag hunting AI. It really brings you down.

[Noah Buttes]

Sundance is literally the best HoS we have ever had, and I agree with every word he's said.

ALSO,

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC, AAAAAAAAAAAA.

Really, a lot of problems with the brig could be resolved by just going back to cogmap 2 in preparation for the coming summer population increase. We're already sometimes hitting 40+ people, which is a bit much for cog1

[Ed Venture]

I'd be down with going back to Cogmap2 if the population levels stay the same or keep increasing.

[Lady Birb]

Middle ground solution I came up with for "How do we make punishment an actual punishment without making people suicide":

A before they made the quantum telescope a mining thing and added new tools people were saying that miner was one of, if not the most boring job on the station.
Why don't we make old mining a punishment? Boring enough that it actually is a punishment and interactive enough the prisoners have a reason not to suicide or go braindead.

Labor Camp:

• Some hollowed-out asteroid in space around the station or the debris field.
  
• Inside is pressurized and comes with some oxygen tanks (Both back-mounted ones and stationary ones for filling the back-mounted ones), some equipment lockers, a recharger, a one-way security intercom so officers can yell at you, A bunch of crates, a couple cargo teleporters, and a teleporterthat the prisoners use to enter and leave the labor camp that connects to security.
  
• Outside is a few catwalks leading to a mineral magnet and it's control unit, a welder and some wires for repairing the magnet if it gets damaged, as well as some solar panels to keep the place running.
  
• Equipment lockers have the aforementioned oxygen tanks, emergency suits, internals, powered pickaxes, ore scoops/satchels, and not much else.
  
• The teleporter the prisoners use is connected to a quota that security can set for each prisoner. Prisoners must meet their quota of ore delivered to the station before being allowed to teleport back. By the teleporter is also a monitor listing each prisoner's quota so they know how much longer they have. The harder they work, the faster they are released. The teleporter PDA's all security officers when it is used so prisoners can have their non-contraband equipment returned and be released back onto the station.
  
• The emergency suits and internals have chips in them that will cause them to fall apart if the prisoner wearing them gets too far away from the labor camp to prevent them from trying to escape. If you manage to smuggle a screwdriver and crowbar to the labor camp the chips can be removed.
  

I probably should have made this it's own thread instead of posting it here.