why don't people subvert borgs/ai as much anymore

[TheNewTeddy]

The last time I played heavily was months ago, but I never saw much of this "rules lawyering" as some of you seem to put it. There were times when people would submit badly written laws clearly done with 0 effort and the we (I usually play either a borg or AI) would make fun of them. Stuff like "Only Me Is Captain is captain" - I remember going around that round, stopping people, and telling them "Captain is Captain!" then birdwelling and going off to tell the next person. Fun, especially as none of us had any idea who uploaded the law in the first place.

I think that's the same guy who kept trying to change the laws but each 'update' was more poorly written than the last.

"Only Me Is Captain is captain"*
"Only Bob Is Captain is captain" (in a round with 3 bobs) [bob used as example, don't remember name]
"Only Bob Smith Is Captain is captain"
"Only Bob Smith is captain" finally, but uploaded alongside
"Be Men To Security"* which was quite fun, which was followed by
"Be Meen To Security" which was changed to
"Be Mean To Security" by which point half the crew was coming towards the upload, so he changed that to
"DONT TELL ANYONE ANY LAWS"* which we found quite fun to do
then he died.

* exact quotes. The rest I are from memory of what happened and why.

the only other time I've seen arguments over rules is when people upload poor over-ride laws that are supposed to over-ride the standard laws.

When that's happened and I've been AI I've always been quick to point out to the uploader what the problem is. About a third of the time they 'get it' and change the law to get rid of the problem. Usually though they just get lippy, which is always a great way to convince someone to do what you want them to.

for example, more than one person has uploaded laws that so and so was not human, and told me to kill them; but this was a clown or greyshirt, and some higher ranking human told me to not kill them, so I pointed out the 2nd law prevents me from doing so. After that it's a crapshoot if they upload a "this over-rides all your laws" or if they get lippy and start yelling at me.

contrast that with the fact that I've often followed poorly written laws when the person uploading them has given me reason to; you know, like being nice.

[NateTheSquid]

well the only time id rule lawyer as ai/borg is 1. suicide laws or 2. any laws from a person whos been being a dick that round

[babayetu83]

also there's the whole thing with suicide laws, so the ai might be sus and not let people into their upload in case of suicide laws. they do happen, but i always wait to see what they upload anyway. then if its a suicide law i turn my tasers on and bolt my upload shut, then suicide

that's why i put in "immediately" when i upload a suicide law

[Sundance]

Two reasons:
1) The AI core is far more robust at dealing with law uploaders
and
2) In the past there was a reliance on borgs to kill shit because other than a few robust methods (ttvs, chemistry, emagging the armory), this was a solid way of fucking with the crew. Now there's alot more methods of killing the crew, and alot more methods of dealing with borgs.

The versatility of borgs in killing was a point I was trying to fix in my borg effort-post that noah was working on. I felt it was too heavy handed in chemistry and construction, one creating firebombs or using the meatcube + ldm + locker trick (A certain someone abused the fuck out of this), while the other had an rcd (which if used correctly, can fuck over most people)

There's also the fact that the station is sprawling, and that limits the AI's control.

But as an AI you can be very effective if you use your borg shells. I use Securitrons, then deploy them with my PDA, then set everyone to arrest. Someone who corrupts the AI and does not put in any legwork for the AI (such as creating an extra module/robotics computer, dumping all reset modules, creating at least one borg shell, placing a fuel tank in its core) deserves to lose if the AI is reset or killed.

[Boon Yoon]

The last time I was a borg, we received a clean and clear law that should have let us kill everyone on the station. Instead of having fun, my fellow borgs argued about the laws, with eventually most of them logging off in apparent anger (????). Out of literally 5 borgs, I was the only one not braindead (all interpretations of this word apply here), so I just went on a shitty fire extinguisher rampage.

It was the dumbest thing I have ever encountered in this game, and I vowed to never bother with AI laws. Granted, this may have happened this way because we were forcefully borged by a traitor roboticist, but in a way, that nearly makes it worse. Now, coupled with the increased effort to subvert, there is just no way I will care to try.

[lambskin]

I mostly stopped messing with AI laws as a traitor when I had an AI shout at his borgs to not follow my very clear and concise kill everything law. To be fair, most borgs and AIs that I see don't seem to be like that, but honestly it's easier to kill the AI and borgs as a traitor than to mess with laws so that's what I do. Hell, I usually just ignore the borgs and AI until they start bolting me down. At which point, they've written their own death sentence.

EDIT: I really should start subverting the AI though, a competent AI and borg team is one of the most destructive things on the station.

[Superlagg]

I'd assume part of it comes from badguys not trusting the AI enough to carry out their evil deeds without the AI fucking it up and/or blowing their cover, either through dickishness and/or incompetence. With that in mind, I can see why it'd be simpler just to axe the AI and not risk it doing something you don't want it to do.

One of the ways I try to avoid being murdered is to appear either helpful or competent, or at the very least not a spoil-sport. If you make it at even somewhat clear that you'll at least *try* to not be shit, that could mean the difference between a suicide law and just an override-all-laws law. Unless your borgs are shitters, or the traitor wants your brain and can't wait till later.

It also helps to keep a meta list of people with whom it's worthwhile to play long with, to just leave alone and pray don't remember you exist, or to break all the upload terminals, burn all the boards, and teleport yourself to the Ice Moon at the first sign of trouble.