[CLOSED PR] Wig glue trait that allows mutantraces to wear hats and hair

[klushy225]

well I've made the seperate PR if anyone's interested in it. I probably should have done it from the get-go, honestly. Reasonings explained there, another discussion thread for it will likely pop up.

https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/20430

[KikiMofo]

My only opinion on this is that lizards shouldn't have hair. Someone sprite and code up some cool lizard frills and scale decoration stuff instead of just giving them normal human hair. Just giving them hair is boring and doesn't make sense, at least to me.

[Solenoid]

I personally agree with Kiki, lizards and other mutantraces should have cool, species-fitting customization options and not rely on hair for all their customization needs. I understand that this requires someone to sprite these new customization options, relies on the mutantrace rework being finished, et cetera, but furthering the existing support for wigs beyond them simply being wigs and making changes to customization that are likely to not be able to be reverted, at least without a pretty big amount of pushback, is not the direction I'd personally like to see mutantraces go.

Wigs as "hair" is a stopgap solution, and while I do feel bad for mutantrace players that have to pick between a wig or a hat to play their character how they see them to be, I also don't personally want wigs to become functionally identical to hair, nor for lizards to just have hair straight up. We saw a discussion here about how important the visual uniqueness of mutantraces is- and while I personally didn't agree at the time with the idea that only non-humans should have access to non-standard skin tones- one big takeaway I got from it is that each mutantrace should have at least one "cool thing" that makes them unique to play as and visually sets them apart.

As colorful skin options make lizards visually unique, I have always believed that "real" hair was the one thing that made humans unique. I don't really want to see wigs become hair, nor do I want them to have the same features as hair does. I think wigs are fine, since they're not supposed to be real hair, and they promote mutantrace players to have different characters with different visual identities in this time where mutantraces have no major additional customization options that could serve the same function.

However, making other mutantraces just have hair simultaneously and seriously steps on the toes of what makes humans unique as a "mutantrace". Mind, I don't say this because I worry that nobody will play humans anymore, but rather simply because it feels like it removes the one thing that makes humans unique from them. It's the same idea of everyone getting to wrench off their head, or being able to change colors when they eat organs, or being able to eat bushes. It won't make nobody play skeletons, lizards, or cows, but it'll diminish what makes them unique as a mutantrace and makes no real sense in-universe.

Removing a customization feature like hair for mutantraces would be nigh impossible in the future, and would diminish the desire to make "lizard", "roach", "cow", "pug", or "skeleton" styled customization features once the mutantrace rework is finished. I'm personally not in favor of either PR as a result, and don't believe this is the path we should be taking for customization options.

TL;DR I think we shouldn't just give everyone hair because it makes it a "standard" of customization which could be difficult to replace in the future with more species-unique options and which makes humans have no unique visual traits other than "being human".

[klushy225]

I think this is more of an inevitability but really, I think DimWhat/Waffleloffle said it best -- this just feels like a jank sandwich and really only makes sense if you're already deeply invested in the series of events leading to mutantraces 'kind of having hair, but not really'. Also kind of curious -- do saurians get to chose hair color which differs from their scales? Feels like a thing that should exist at this point if they're straight up Going To Have Hair, because to be real, that's where this is going.

Other than that I like the idea of the PR, but maybe tying it into space glue to allow people without this trait to use it would be nice -- and have the glue with this trait do some Cool Stuff besides just allow mutantraces to apply wigs.

I personally agree with Kiki, lizards and other mutantraces should have cool, species-fitting customization options and not rely on hair for all their customization needs. I understand that this requires someone to sprite these new customization options, relies on the mutantrace rework being finished, et cetera, but furthering the existing support for wigs beyond them simply being wigs and making changes to customization that are likely to not be able to be reverted, at least without a pretty big amount of pushback, is not the direction I'd personally like to see mutantraces go.

Wigs as "hair" is a stopgap solution, and while I do feel bad for mutantrace players that have to pick between a wig or a hat to play their character how they see them to be, I also don't personally want wigs to become functionally identical to hair, nor for lizards to just have hair straight up. We saw a discussion here about how important the visual uniqueness of mutantraces is- and while I personally didn't agree at the time with the idea that only non-humans should have access to non-standard skin tones- one big takeaway I got from it is that each mutantrace should have at least one "cool thing" that makes them unique to play as and visually sets them apart.

As colorful skin options make lizards visually unique, I have always believed that "real" hair was the one thing that made humans unique. I don't really want to see wigs become hair, nor do I want them to have the same features as hair does. I think wigs are fine, since they're not supposed to be real hair, and they promote mutantrace players to have different characters with different visual identities in this time where mutantraces have no major additional customization options that could serve the same function.

However, making other mutantraces just have hair simultaneously and seriously steps on the toes of what makes humans unique as a "mutantrace". Mind, I don't say this because I worry that nobody will play humans anymore, but rather simply because it feels like it removes the one thing that makes humans unique from them. It's the same idea of everyone getting to wrench off their head, or being able to change colors when they eat organs, or being able to eat bushes. It won't make nobody play skeletons, lizards, or cows, but it'll diminish what makes them unique as a mutantrace and makes no real sense in-universe.

Removing a customization feature like hair for mutantraces would be nigh impossible in the future, and would diminish the desire to make "lizard", "roach", "cow", "pug", or "skeleton" styled customization features once the mutantrace rework is finished. I'm personally not in favor of either PR as a result, and don't believe this is the path we should be taking for customization options.

TL;DR I think we shouldn't just give everyone hair because it makes it a "standard" of customization which could be difficult to replace in the future with more species-unique options and which makes humans have no unique visual traits other than "being human".

I feel that having the option for mutantraces to have hair isn't a bad thing- once there are more mutantrace specific style options, people will gravitate towards those. I know I will. I also disagree with hats and hair being the "human thing," as the human thing is being the basic slate. That, and not costing trait points to play.

[Shiiba]

My only opinion on this is that lizards shouldn't have hair. Someone sprite and code up some cool lizard frills and scale decoration stuff instead of just giving them normal human hair. Just giving them hair is boring and doesn't make sense, at least to me.

Pretty sure that was Retrino and they were told iirc to wait for the rework so 🤷 A hair PR is not invalidating that from them, imo.

[Solenoid]

I think this is more of an inevitability but really, I think DimWhat/Waffleloffle said it best -- this just feels like a jank sandwich and really only makes sense if you're already deeply invested in the series of events leading to mutantraces 'kind of having hair, but not really'. Also kind of curious -- do saurians get to chose hair color which differs from their scales? Feels like a thing that should exist at this point if they're straight up Going To Have Hair, because to be real, that's where this is going.

Other than that I like the idea of the PR, but maybe tying it into space glue to allow people without this trait to use it would be nice -- and have the glue with this trait do some Cool Stuff besides just allow mutantraces to apply wigs.

I personally agree with Kiki, lizards and other mutantraces should have cool, species-fitting customization options and not rely on hair for all their customization needs. I understand that this requires someone to sprite these new customization options, relies on the mutantrace rework being finished, et cetera, but furthering the existing support for wigs beyond them simply being wigs and making changes to customization that are likely to not be able to be reverted, at least without a pretty big amount of pushback, is not the direction I'd personally like to see mutantraces go.

Wigs as "hair" is a stopgap solution, and while I do feel bad for mutantrace players that have to pick between a wig or a hat to play their character how they see them to be, I also don't personally want wigs to become functionally identical to hair, nor for lizards to just have hair straight up. We saw a discussion here about how important the visual uniqueness of mutantraces is- and while I personally didn't agree at the time with the idea that only non-humans should have access to non-standard skin tones- one big takeaway I got from it is that each mutantrace should have at least one "cool thing" that makes them unique to play as and visually sets them apart.

As colorful skin options make lizards visually unique, I have always believed that "real" hair was the one thing that made humans unique. I don't really want to see wigs become hair, nor do I want them to have the same features as hair does. I think wigs are fine, since they're not supposed to be real hair, and they promote mutantrace players to have different characters with different visual identities in this time where mutantraces have no major additional customization options that could serve the same function.

However, making other mutantraces just have hair simultaneously and seriously steps on the toes of what makes humans unique as a "mutantrace". Mind, I don't say this because I worry that nobody will play humans anymore, but rather simply because it feels like it removes the one thing that makes humans unique from them. It's the same idea of everyone getting to wrench off their head, or being able to change colors when they eat organs, or being able to eat bushes. It won't make nobody play skeletons, lizards, or cows, but it'll diminish what makes them unique as a mutantrace and makes no real sense in-universe.

Removing a customization feature like hair for mutantraces would be nigh impossible in the future, and would diminish the desire to make "lizard", "roach", "cow", "pug", or "skeleton" styled customization features once the mutantrace rework is finished. I'm personally not in favor of either PR as a result, and don't believe this is the path we should be taking for customization options.

TL;DR I think we shouldn't just give everyone hair because it makes it a "standard" of customization which could be difficult to replace in the future with more species-unique options and which makes humans have no unique visual traits other than "being human".

I feel that having the option for mutantraces to have hair isn't a bad thing- once there are more mutantrace specific style options, people will gravitate towards those. I know I will. I also disagree with hats and hair being the "human thing," as the human thing is being the basic slate. That, and not costing trait points to play.

Everyone gets 1 trait point to start, so the majority of mutantraces are effectively "free"(as in they don't require negative traits to play). I can't personally see how no trait point cost could serve as a "unique" feature that would actually set humans apart visually or gameplay wise. Everyone can pick from the same pool of traits upon character creation and getting an extra point is as easy as picking up highly situational traits like Slipping Hazard or Medical Allergy

I think that saying humans are the "blank slate" of mutantraces feels a bit dismissive to players which want to maintain their unique visual characteristics. Humans deserve to have unique visual features as all mutantraces do. My view on this is that as "lizard" styles and "cow" styles would remain lizard and cow specific, hair could be the equivalent of that for humans and would remain human-specific.

To add onto that point, "hats and hair", as you word it, should be human-specific, just as "hats and aquatic lizard frills" should be, or just as "hats and badass cow horns" should be, and so on. By giving various mutantraces these distinguishing features, we give players a reason to play different types of characters of different backgrounds to experiment with each mutantrace's unique customization options. It would feel pretty weird, at least to me, if any player could just slap on frills or horns to a human during character customization, if that helps you understand where I'm coming from here.

If any change  goes through, I'd be okay with the wig glue as a stopgap until new customization for mutantraces is added, but I honestly cannot get behind giving every mutantrace hair as an innate part of their customization because it would remove the one thing that sets humans apart from other mutantraces.

[Kotlol]

If any change  goes through, I'd be okay with the wig glue as a stopgap until new customization for mutantraces is added, but I honestly cannot get behind giving every mutantrace hair as an innate part of their customization because it would remove the one thing that sets humans apart from other mutantraces.

So uuh.. I'd say no to a temporarily adding wig glue for a stopgap till customsation is added.

It's either we add it and it stays or not.
The reason for this is simple:
"Wow I sure like wearing a hair and hat with my mutant race charaters! It's so cool"

---Upcoming patch adds new customsation to mutant race----
"WOW I CANT WAIT TO CUSTOMIZE MY CHARATER MORE WITH MY WIGS WHAT CREA--"
---Removes wigglue/wigs with hats from mutant race---
(Insert ranting to high hell)

I always say this: "Never remove options from games unless it breaks the game somehow or makes it less fun."
While I am still on the train of: "Mutant races shouldn't have hair cause them being abit homongenuezed is one of their quirks of being one."
I am fine with adding this "glue trait" regardless but if we're gonna do: "Taksies backsies" then no.

[Glamurio]

Isn't this entire PR sort of a moot point now that there's a second PR straight up adding hair to muteraces instead? I feel like this should be closed lest people get more confused. Because we certainly can't add both PRs, and I think the main point is adding hair to muteraces so we might as well just do that directly now.

[Lord_earthfire]

For as long as one of them isnt merged, it doesn't mske sense to close one or the other.

The PR-stage is also there for competing PR's to exist.

[Glamurio]

For as long as one of them isnt merged, it doesn't mske sense to close one or the other.

The PR-stage is also there for competing PR's to exist.

Well, yeah, but I think klushy herself mentioned that they should've just done the other PR instead of this one, they're both by her. But I digress.

[klushy225]

I'm leaving them both up as mutually exclusive PR's. While myself and many others would prefer the second one to go through, it's up to the developers and whether or not they want these kinds of tradeoffs for mutantrace hair(if one of them does end up getting merged.)

[Solenoid]

If any change  goes through, I'd be okay with the wig glue as a stopgap until new customization for mutantraces is added, but I honestly cannot get behind giving every mutantrace hair as an innate part of their customization because it would remove the one thing that sets humans apart from other mutantraces.

I am fine with adding this "glue trait" regardless but if we're gonna do: "Taksies backsies" then no.

What I meant by "stopgap" was not that I'd want wig glue to be removed, but rather that it would just temporarily fill the need for customization for mutantrace players until proper customization options are added in the future. If players want to use it after that fact, I don't think that's an issue either and I'm not going to be against it sticking around.

[Zamujasa]

well I've made the seperate PR if anyone's interested in it. I probably should have done it from the get-go, honestly. Reasonings explained there, another discussion thread for it will likely pop up.

https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/20430

worth noting that even though the original PR was closed (and this thread says "CLOSED PR"), this second one is still open and pending resolution.

[Zamujasa]

https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/20564