Unify Classic and RP Sec accesses

[whowasclowneddownintheend]

I think Security on RP certainly needs some adjustment - but this is the wrong way to go about it. The access restrictions on Classic are, more than anything, intended to keep secoff powergamers from looting departments in my opinion. Encouraging the law enforcement guys to break the laws is a little silly.

[Emimiyu]

I feel like people need to read again of the access suggested in PR (george also change some of it) and thimk whether or not some access are necessary

It seems from the new addition, the only cut down that seems pretty massive is to engineering. When it comes to medbay and science access, a lot of the room that secoff don't have access to are small offices where crimes rarely ever happen and usually exposed to halls or the main lobby of their dept (artlab, gene, robotics). Robotics usually have borgs in it or a bunch of people. If borgs are rogued is being an issue, robotics access still meaningless when they can just bolt down doors. Why do secoff need chaplain office access and det so bad? Chaplain also already has crematorium as advantage where they can murder there and burn someone alive there too. Toxin access is back now, etc etc.

A lot of the access cut down is not that bad (maybe not for engineering dept, that is a massive cut). And if sylvester lowpop issue is a thing? Lowpop happens on BOTH sylvester and heisenbee at certain hour because people on certain timezone will go to sleep, go to work, and do their daily activities and there are not a lot ot people from other timezone during their lowpop hour to fill in. There will be disadvantage in lowpop because... it is lowpop?

[emmett]

to add on the badge idea - maybe it could make the door make a distinct sound cue or whatever so the people on the other time had a brief window to hide the bodies under a rug or whatever.

</3 apparently that was said already and i just forgor

[freedo5]

I have been playing a bit of security with the new access both on 3 and 4 and i honestly haven't found a big difference in gameplay. You still get access to the main areas of departments, and most antagonists won't stay in a room you have no access to forever, they will use it to try and escape it through maints (or space i guess, but i haven't seen people do it yet cause space is cold). I think this should be merged just because i don't feel like i "lost" access, i wasn't really going into specific areas of departments anyways, probably because people prefer to commit crimes around maints.

EDIT: To clarify, when i say i don't feel like i lost access i mean that i didn't need that access in the first place.

[TemThrush]

Echoing the comment above, I played briefly as an antag, but I've mostly done a whooollee lot of observing on both 3 and 4 the past couple days since the merge. Honestly, it really hasn't felt like much has changed if I'm honest. I may just be super unlucky in the rounds that I happened to observe, but none of the antags I've gotten to watch have really utilized the access restrictions. Business seems to be going as usual. Secoffs are still patrolling the station, including wandering into the departments they now have less access to. Most crimes and fights tend to just happen in the halls and maints, as per usual. I tried to pay special attention to the security comms, and I can't say I saw a single officer ask for the HOS to open a door for them, let alone really hit a roadblock because of the restrictions. Even asking the AI wasn't too common or anything, at least anymore than it already was. But that's only from the rounds that I've watched so far, I can't see everything all at once all the time ofc. I'll keep observing/playing and comment again later if I see anything noteworthy 🤷

In my personal opinion, a lot of these areas that have been closed off were places Secoffs just didn't go to begin with and didn't really need, which is why I haven't really felt a large shift. That's just my take on it though!

[Chatauscours]

I mist admit that I was wrong, and gameplay hasn't changed much in general for security with the testmerge.

That said, I would still find it logical for the HoS to have all doors access, except the mining outpost and command quarters.
Artlab because turret artifacts and the like happen, Robot depot because purge guardbuddies happen and engi atmos because plasmafloods happen.

As for secoff access, tech storage might be a debatble point to remove though, since even staffies have access to it, but otherwise the testmerge seems reasonable.

[noidedman]

I mist admit that I was wrong, and gameplay hasn't changed much in general for security with the testmerge.

That said, I would still find it logical for the HoS to have all doors access, except the mining outpost and command quarters.
Artlab because turret artifacts and the like happen, Robot depot because purge guardbuddies happen and engi atmos because plasmafloods happen.

As for secoff access, tech storage might be a debatble point to remove though, since even staffies have access to it, but otherwise the testmerge seems reasonable.

I think its important that the crew have barriers between security and the crew that can only be resolved through shouting matches through windows, calling an engineer to hack the door or calling the captain.

Why?

Because its funny.

[TheBee03]

I am finding it really hard to be an officer when it comes to ~10pm PST. It gets pretty bad on RP, as the pop dies, and officers are dealing with a lot more, with just less manpower. The fact that there's less access is just another nail in the coffin. I can't be the only one who's noticing how there's absolutely no officers at this time anymore. I think its just cause being an officer just sucks at the moment. Personally, I can't play 'late night' as an officer; so there's no officers anymore.  If this is something that is gonna stick around, I think there has to be a thing that gives officers more access if there's no HoS and there's just one or two of them, otherwise its just not fun.

[Frank_Stein]

[Azurnite]

Prior to the change, I played a good bit of sec off and HOS on classic settings from Nightshade and RP sec. I didn't think the change would phase me personally and it has, but just a little. In all honestly it's made for some comical moments the few times I have been able to be HOS, where some people would point and laugh at, "The mighty HOS is trapped in the Engine room." I honestly don't mind having lots of access or reduced access, but I also strongly adhere to "Stay in your Lane" meaning, just because I could go somewhere doesn't mean I would unless I had a reason to be there.

From the other half, I've been an antag a few times and due to the access changes I can say that it gave me enough time to bail out of a bad situation unless the AI was also on my case. I've noticed AIs are becoming more preoccupied with security affairs now, granted security is asking for assistance is a large part of the reason, but I have noticed it leads to the AI then hunting antags down more frequently. Additionally, I have noticed captains are also hanging around helping security more now too, more than usual. I ultimately hope that this will not result in a culture shift towards overbearing AIs and Captains as this was the one worry I had to begin with, but time will tell with this one.

While it has made me change how I play a little, I still feel there's a better way out there to handle this. I know it's been said a few times now, but revamping Red Alert would be nice. There are a lot of ideas I could pitch about it, if they already haven't been shared that is, but I think it would be best done in a separate thread.

[Lefinch]

I tend to take a "If there's no security, they get more proactive help, if there's tons, I'll say hi, and wait for reports/requests to come in" approach with AI, but I'd say pre-post change on this is a slight uptick on needing to keep a closer eye on security. No big sweat though, about on par with most rounds. However, I'm very light on shell usage, and a lot of AIs are very heavy on it. It would be good to get a viewpoint from them on it as it's a bit easier to keep an eye on things as a camera eye than in a borg shell.

I can't help but feel that we won't see if the idea is going to be perfectly fine or have problems once people have got a bit more used to it. I only seen a little -deliberate- usage of departmental access on morty as much as I have happy accidents. Funny ones too so I'm hoping things swing that way.

[JORJ949]

I tend to take a "If there's no security, they get more proactive help, if there's tons, I'll say hi, and wait for reports/requests to come in" approach with AI, but I'd say pre-post change on this is a slight uptick on needing to keep a closer eye on security. No big sweat though, about on par with most rounds. However, I'm very light on shell usage, and a lot of AIs are very heavy on it. It would be good to get a viewpoint from them on it as it's a bit easier to keep an eye on things as a camera eye than in a borg shell.

I can't help but feel that we won't see if the idea is going to be perfectly fine or have problems once people have got a bit more used to it. I only seen a little -deliberate- usage of departmental access on morty as much as I have happy accidents. Funny ones too so I'm hoping things swing that way.

As a classic "AI main" I take the same approach to AI, if I know sec has their act together I leave em be unless ordered, if its a couple new officers I will often report crimes I see and suggest punishments, I also use shell heavily depending on how much I need to be keeping an eye on the various departments, if they all seem to be fine I can mess around in my shell for a while, if not I tend to stick to eye.