[PR] Vampires no longer take starlight damage from fluid "space" turfs

[github_bot]

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[BALANCE]
About the PR

Adjusts vampires' starlight damage check on /turf/space variants to not apply in the case of /turf/space/fluid variants. Also improved comments in the surroundings a bit.

Why's this needed?

Makes vampires not take space-based damage from what isn't space; the sunlight that still pierces through is arguably starlight, but at low enough intensity that it shouldn't be of significant harm.

Gameplay-wise, this is most relevant to vampires on Nadir, as secluded spaces are relatively hard to come by and this will significantly improve their freedom of movement.

Opted for a major changelog entry at time of posting since it significantly influences the gameplay possibilities of an antagonist, if circumstantially.

Changelog

Code:

changelog
(u)Kubius
(*)Vampires no longer take starlight damage from fluid "space" turfs.

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[Kotlol]

Considering Nadir has acid anyway.. I see no problem with this. It's just rude for the vampire to take double damage from it.

Though this would make vamps good in OSHAN... so it's not perfect.

I'd just say "remove starlight damage" from Nadir. But not OSHAN.

[Kubius]

One alternative approach along those lines is to specify that the acid and trench variants of fluid space would be safe for vampires, since Oshan's surface level is relatively bright compared to either of those.

[Cheffie]

I think the oshan damage removal is perfectly fine, vampires already have MASSIVE amounts of counters. Lings and werewolves are the closest antag relative and suffer no ill effects from space where vampires which are often considered to be weaker DO.
If it simply must be removed from oshan it should probably get stopped when nadir oshan night cycles are active.

[jckrfc03]

looks good, space damage fits with with vamp lore and all that but it does make no sense that vamps would get burned at the bottom of the ocean since theres basically no sunlight etc. Plus vamp on nadir is pretty rough due to some of the limited areas in maint and it gives vamp some extra styles of play on these select maps.

[Kotlol]

Another reason why I find the Nadir removal fine and the Oshan one not so much. Is the following reasons:

1: In Oshan, you only need to use O2 to survive in there. It's never cold enough unless you go down into the lower levels.
If the vampire can do this + bat mode... it gets ridiclously strong.

2: In oshan you can move freely unlike space where you can float off and doom yourself.

3: Subs aka ship exist on Oshan that you can use and drive inside the station and outside without problems.

As for why the change HAS to come to Nadir:
1: Nadir has no subs/pods for the vampire to hide in.
2: The acid will already damage the poor thing.
3: It requires a special suit to go into acid water anyway that slowly eats away. And space suits tend to hurt vamps by starlight too.

So yea...

[Mouse]

Vampires are traditionally harmed by running water, just saying.

[Frolicsome Flufficorn]

Another reason why I find the Nadir removal fine and the Oshan one not so much. Is the following reasons:

1: In Oshan, you only need to use O2 to survive in there. It's never cold enough unless you go down into the lower levels.
If the vampire can do this + bat mode... it gets ridiclously strong.

2: In oshan you can move freely unlike space where you can float off and doom yourself.

3: Subs aka ship exist on Oshan that you can use and drive inside the station and outside without problems.

As for why the change HAS to come to Nadir:
1: Nadir has no subs/pods for the vampire to hide in.
2: The acid will already damage the poor thing.
3: It requires a special suit to go into acid water anyway that slowly eats away. And space suits tend to hurt vamps by starlight too.

So yea...

Counter point, In terms of OPness, Changeling Has the ability on all maps to literally move through all these obstacles without any issue. Im obviously not saying give Vampire space res, since space sun etc makes sense for vampire lore. But why are we suggesting that vampire should be pinned down as a single antag compared to every other antag in this situation. Oshan can literally be moved around in by everyone easily. By removing it from JUST vampire it easily puts that single antag at a huge disadvantage. Hell even traitors who are quite literally normal humans do better in the water for basically no reason. I dont see why we would single out a 1 antagonist to randomly debuff them despite the fact that lore wise it doesnt make sense due to them being at the bottom of a oshan. Side rant, but why while wearing a space suit do vampires take Damage in space XD. I mean it doesnt make sense, that suit completely covers their entire body so how does the sunlight even hit them? ok cool point made.

[Lord_earthfire]

With how lighted the oshean area is, i kinda always felt that oshean is settled shallow enough that sunlight reaches the bottom. So vampires should burn in it.

I could see a change of scaling on different maps. Like almost no burning on nadir, medium burning on oshan, and full burn on space maps. Maybe a multiplier that applies to solars as well.

[Kotlol]

Another reason why I find the Nadir removal fine and the Oshan one not so much. Is the following reasons:

1: In Oshan, you only need to use O2 to survive in there. It's never cold enough unless you go down into the lower levels.
If the vampire can do this + bat mode... it gets ridiclously strong.

2: In oshan you can move freely unlike space where you can float off and doom yourself.

3: Subs aka ship exist on Oshan that you can use and drive inside the station and outside without problems.

As for why the change HAS to come to Nadir:
1: Nadir has no subs/pods for the vampire to hide in.
2: The acid will already damage the poor thing.
3: It requires a special suit to go into acid water anyway that slowly eats away. And space suits tend to hurt vamps by starlight too.

So yea...

Counter point, In terms of OPness, Changeling Has the ability on all maps to literally move through all these obstacles without any issue. Im obviously not saying give Vampire space res, since space sun etc makes sense for vampire lore. But why are we suggesting that vampire should be pinned down as a single antag compared to every other antag in this situation. Oshan can literally be moved around in by everyone easily. By removing it from JUST vampire it easily puts that single antag at a huge disadvantage. Hell even traitors who are quite literally normal humans do better in the water for basically no reason. I dont see why we would single out a 1 antagonist to randomly debuff them despite the fact that lore wise it doesnt make sense due to them being at the bottom of a oshan. Side rant, but why while wearing a space suit do vampires take Damage in space XD. I mean it doesnt make sense, that suit completely covers their entire body so how does the sunlight even hit them? ok cool point made.

Good counterpoint, wich is why in NADIR they shouldn't have this problem. It means they can NEVER step foot outside of it even in the suit (wich kinda sucks)

But I do think the vampire should obtain a way to be in space/oshan with a suit on.

I do agree we are just nerfing things for lore wise. But... come on. Let vampires atleast wear a full on suit to avoid being burned.

[KikiMofo]

I'd say make vamps have to wear scuba gear if they are going out in the water in order to not be damaged by the sun/starlight.
Makes it so that they aren't getting directly hit by the light because of the gear and the water obscuring it.
Also makes the vamps slower in the scuba gear if they aren't wearing the flippy flops outside.
Good enough compromise to me.