Research and science rework

[Vuk Farkas]

We already have the mechanics for such a thing in the game (just look at genetics)
Compared to other codes we do not need to destroy an item to be able to fabricate it (we got superior device analyzers) however we really lack any research whatsoever (upgrades and stuff obtainable via research only).

       My idea is to add a research lab to science (which will have to cooperate with others especially the mechanic). Mechanics should also have acess (preferably throu the maint door) to the research lab, ya will understand why later.

      Research lab is basically a lab for developing new prototypes, by building upon gathered knowledge. Idea is to gather science points, which are then used to develop various fields of science, which again depending on their development allow creation of prototypes (which mechanic can scan) and upgrades.

Points could be gathered in the beginning by scanning things (standard job of the mechanic) but when research is done enough, materials and energy can be sacrificed for the points (cause ya run outta things to scan anyway).

Fields to research could be:

      Engineering - allows to develop engineering related things from tools and their upgrades to various machines (combined tools, powersources, mechanic specific machines and tools like the R-kit and the device analyzer, etc)

      Medicine - discover special medical tools and devices (syringe gun, portable sleeper etc)

      Command and Security - create upgrades for headsets, visors, weapons, armor, or even new things like personal energy shields, or telescopic/foldable/inflatable barriers/walls and doors

      Robotics (unlocked after researching a few levels of engineering)- pushing the boundaries in this field, discovers new bots (basically more customization to buddy bots, creating farm-bots, miner-bots, and whatever suits yer fancy, which can be programmed and off-network; allows creation of mechanical synths (i already had a thread about them) etc

      Biology (unlocked after a few levels into medicine) - greatly improves biological aspect of medicine (especially genetics) could help with faster/simpler production of synthblood and having easyer time in pathology, helps hydroponics too by discovering upgrades to trays (self-watering and self-fertilizing upgrades for example; and hopefully plant synths, i had a thread about this too)
 

      Some prototypes would require certain levels in more than one field (example tool arm i spoke of in another thread would require levels in engineering, medicine, biology and robotics) and certain prototypes researched before that (again in case of tool arm, a combo-tool would need to be discovered as a pre-requirement (imagine a swiss army knife).

       Research could even discover addons that improve fabricators (faster production, less materials used, or heck even a combo of those two)

       Research would also discover a few machines for themselves (example mater to energy (and the oposite) converter, research point farm (basically consumes energy to generate research points).
       Machines research lab would start with would be a computer, a prototype fabricator, Analyzer-scanner (basically a machine like the mechanics device analyzer, except its fixed to the ground, requires power, and can scan even organic material, and resources).

      Matter to energy converter would be like a furnace except it could consume anything within 3 seconds to produce electricity within the energy value of that item and ammount (so pretty much same as furnace just a lot faster, make sure ya got big enough battery bank to store all of the power at once)
      Energy to matter converter is the exact opposite (actually a fabricator that can consume energy to create any scanned resource). Powerhungry machine, but hey ya cant complain when ya no longer need to depend on RNG in mining (or lazy miners or greedy QM), and ya dont need to slave off breaking rocks...
(so even if mining doesnt supply ya with samples, at least ya can raid the nearest fabricator for glass and steel mats (and if yer lucky insulation too) to scan them, so at least ya can produce glass and steel to plug holes in the station, and wires to fix any shortcircuits...or whatever.

       I would also like to see artifact lab re-worked (heck anything with commands is owercomplicated, and unexplained, not everyone is a programmer). I dont see why it cant be done like on every other code i seen, where each machine is set and then a button pushed.... (either via a computer or there is a button next to the machine).
       Pathology could use same re-work, some things are seriously not friendly towards anyone but experts.
      PDA Hacking and Programming could be done simpler too, thing i hate the most it reminds me of DOS (as a person with memory issues, i dont plan to memorize every fuckin thing, just to program a bot to patrol, or wonder how the fuck do i call/recall the shuttle, or access the data in security to set someone to arrest)

State yer opinions and ideas... this would need a lot of tuning and organization, and many more things which we can steal from other codes... muahhaha

[medsal15]

Customizing borgs was attempted. I won't say it was bad, but only bad memories are left.

[Burrito Justice]

(as a person with memory issues, i dont plan to memorize every fuckin thing, [...] or wonder how the fuck do i call/recall the shuttle

Just write a sticky note or something, dude. It's literally just this:

Code:

Click Communications Terminal
Insert ID card
>Login
>Commaster
>Call
>Logout
Take ID out

and many more things which we can steal from other codes... muahhaha

No.

[atomic1fire]

I think if we got a prototype lab, I'd rather it be a joint project between science and mechanics that both can access. Mechanics can scan more stuff, but scientists have access to chemicals and dwaine and could probably scan artifacts as well, so for instance a scientist finds a teleport gun, and once they've got the rough schematics out, the prototype lab builds a prototype and once perfected mechanics can mass produce it. Scientists can work on crunching numbers while mechanics can offer existing schematics to modify.

[aft2001]

I like the prototype labs and other research exclusive things, but really that's it. Leave the cool powerful shit complex, so it'll take skill to actually use it. Pathology can be VERY dangerous. Artlab can be VERY dangerous. While artlab isn't all that bad to use, it does take skill and practice to quickly be able to figure out artifacts. Pathology is a nightmare, but, the ability to make super viruses that'll gib entire stations is a bit... Overpowered. While pathology does need a rework, I think it should still be complicated and take time to learn.

And PDA hacking... Dear god... It deserves to be difficult. Being able to spam everyone's PDA, read every message, open any door, open any locker, is beyond dangerous. Think about this:

Billy McStaff Assistant is a traitor. He runs over to the CartyParty vendor and takes a network diagnostics cart. Within minutes he breaks into the armory and starts murdering everyone, without even ordering anything from the Syndies.

While this is still possible, it'd be best for it to be VERY hard to do this kinda stuff. Also it should be even harder! Codes and IDs and passwords should change regularly, to prevent anyone from pasting in their hacking code and being able to access anywhere and everywhere.

However, I still love the cross department research stuff! Having a team of scientists, doctors, and mechanics all working together to make cool new gear and tools and reagents would be amazing. It'd promote department interaction and *actual* research!

[Vuk Farkas]

I think if we got a prototype lab, I'd rather it be a joint project between science and mechanics that both can access. Mechanics can scan more stuff, but scientists have access to chemicals and dwaine and could probably scan artifacts as well, so for instance a scientist finds a teleport gun, and once they've got the rough schematics out, the prototype lab builds a prototype and once perfected mechanics can mass produce it. Scientists can work on crunching numbers while mechanics can offer existing schematics to modify.

THIS! wery nicely put! this is what i wanted to say as one of the possibilities!

---

I like the prototype labs and other research exclusive things, but really that's it. Leave the cool powerful shit complex, so it'll take skill to actually use it. Pathology can be VERY dangerous. Artlab can be VERY dangerous. While artlab isn't all that bad to use, it does take skill and practice to quickly be able to figure out artifacts. Pathology is a nightmare, but, the ability to make super viruses that'll gib entire stations is a bit... Overpowered. While pathology does need a rework, I think it should still be complicated and take time to learn.

And PDA hacking... Dear god... It deserves to be difficult. Being able to spam everyone's PDA, read every message, open any door, open any locker, is beyond dangerous. Think about this:

Billy McStaff Assistant is a traitor. He runs over to the CartyParty vendor and takes a network diagnostics cart. Within minutes he breaks into the armory and starts murdering everyone, without even ordering anything from the Syndies.

While this is still possible, it'd be best for it to be VERY hard to do this kinda stuff. Also it should be even harder! Codes and IDs and passwords should change regularly, to prevent anyone from pasting in their hacking code and being able to access anywhere and everywhere.

However, I still love the cross department research stuff! Having a team of scientists, doctors, and mechanics all working together to make cool new gear and tools and reagents would be amazing. It'd promote department interaction and *actual* research!

Actually what ya described as a bad thing happens regularly... i mean i litterally had a monkey who was a hackin and engineer wiz! He and i tried to even make a monkey translator (but we failed for some reason). We tried to use a machine implant at first to bypass the language barrier (cause logically machines use binary... aparently chimp and human binary differ) which for some reason failed! Then he made some weird machine which still failed at translation... and guess what monkey litterally open bolted most doors on the station (was wery low pop) with a network card faster than i could as a mechanic with my special PDA... (he was a damn skilled guy).
      Reason i prefer at least programing to be simpler, is cause i see some things litterally unused (like custom PDAs, buddybots etc)
       As for artifacts... tbh as a mechanic i do more artifact research with BASIC TOOLS than artlab itself! (heck i learned that from scientists who use a welder, a igniter, and maybe a few more things, to try and activate the artifacts, and only if that fails they bother with the actual artlab, which is a pain in the arse to use even if ya know the controls)
       In case of artlab, its not hard to figure out how to activate the artifacts, its fuckin easy really... hard parts are those owercomplicated controls!
     
        Just to add one more thing... from my experience traitors are often one of the heads if not captain himself! (usually HoP) so they pretty much already have all acess... and not like they dont have their own equipment to hack!

[aft2001]

Well, like I said, the PDA hacking should be nerfed somewhat. Once you devote a round or two on LLJK1 to getting your PDA codes and stuff, you've become god in terms of electronics. And also, the artlab has a few tools that are unique to it, like the electric box and microwaver thing. These instruments also provide feedback and stuff.

And there's already a simplified GUI for the artlab. Click on the mainframe for it...

[ferriswheel1]

The ideas on here are good, reminds me of that other research rework thread we had. I doubt any coder is willing to spend their time porting over stuff from other codebases when they could, you know, be working on actual new stuff.

Personally, I think a research system if one ever gets made should focus more on weird and crazy stuff rather than utilities and equipment. Grinding down a linear research tree every round to get the same useful things is boring. Making other areas dependent on science, the most unreliable department, would be painful.

One more point I'd like to make, though is that Pathology is currently in a good place at the moment. Although it could do with some tweaks and more features. I'd really prefer something so powerful to be kept tricky and longwinded. Pathology in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing can be more devastating than toxins.

EDIT: Hey, I found that old research thread I was talking about! http://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid=6909

[Vuk Farkas]

I usually play on the map which has a "ship" for a station, and codes there are randomized always... so every time ya have to learn the IDs, also love the ideas on the other thread too really good ones there!

Thruth be told R&D on most servers is VITAL like besides basics ya cant make much until R&D does their magic... and it all depends on community there, on some engineering is awoided (cause all ya do is repair and babysit the engine), while science is bursting with scientists, on some every damn job is full but the mining (i also notice on most no one does botany even if it has some really good stuff from plant people to awesome plants once ya start playing with gene splicing).

Stuff like cyber hearts, implants and such are R&D only items, heck the roboticist can barely make borgs without any research, but once research is done, he can make mechs, make synthetics, etc...
So it all depends on community really...and how interesting that certain field is. But i wont lie some servers would usually have just heads (usually played by admins and mods) and everyone else would be greysuits cause no one wanted to work just (e)RP.
I do remember one server where every damn job had at least 1-2 people, but 90% of them would be out in space adventuring, or setting up bases in space, or like me repairing the white science-medical ship, which is basically an owersized mobile shuttle equiped like a mini station, or rebuilding abandoned stations!

[Superlagg]

This might work a lot better on Destiny where the length of the rounds and patience of the crew tends to be a more permissive. Imagine if you had to wait until half way through the round to be able to make a decent borg, and that's if the research dweebs are on the ball.