[Goon1] - Enforced escalation rules (or, just "interestingness" rules) on lowpop

[Jimbo20]

Please properly read everything here, even the clarifications in brackets, even if it seems irrelevant.

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Now. I know this may not be popular, and has most likely been discussed before, and I have heard "non-binding etiquette rules" lead to the situation that was Goon 2

People can antag however they want. If you want to murder fairly early on while there isn't many people, then that's what you want to do. 
For me, it is a choice how I react to any given situation. I have heard some quite distressing things today which I will not mention which struck deep within me (the details I will not mention), and I am allowing myself to feel a bit sad, a bit stressed out. For a while. And then I will go back to normal, because life goes on.

("Healing from my trauma" does not make me better than anyone else) 

For a LOT of people (and this is completely normal and natural, just unfortunate), people act as passive observers of life, passive recipients of emotions, rather than an ACTIVE participant in those things. Stressful, annoying, hurtful things cause the typical reactions, because they just do. If you want to, and have the resources to, you can go through a healing process to move through life with predominantly love and acceptance.

If you can't at the moment (e.g. no support network, no access to a therapist, can't go to public libraries for whatever reason or the "powers that be" have gutted them, disability, etc), then you might not be able to. If you think you can't, then it's possible this is true, but it's also possible there is something that can be done.

Again, your life, your decision, you make the judgment calls.

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NOW I can get into the meat and potatoes of this discussion because I have contextualized it.

I want to say again, one more time: People have a right to antag however they want. It is people's decision on how to react to it (sometimes that decision is not "their" own). 

HOWEVER! (As an example I saw) Buying wrestlebelt and a mindhack when there is 4 people, mindhacking one person, and killing the other two people online without any warning, and gibbing their corpses

That is a good way to fuck people off (I was just kind of indifferent when it happened, but it's really not great, right?). 
Antags should practice good judgment on how their actions will be received, EVEN if they have the right to antag however they want - but some people aren't very good at making good judgments (and that's okay! not a put-down of anyone)

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People play this game to relax, and yeah you can close and go to another game if someone's being a Shit, but is what we have going on right now working? People are leaving goon1 in droves and have been for a while. 

So, what needs to be done? I'm not really qualified to discuss creation of a new "set of rules" to be enforced in lowpop, or to make considerations about the many different circumstances involved. I'd like to see discussion about this before anything concrete is suggested, because that's the best way to come to conclusions.

On goon1, it's fun when people are funny about being antag, or do pseudo-RP, it's cool when they are considerate when people have a project they're working on and leave them alone, or when people are having a conversation. It's cool when death is made entertaining. HOWEVER!!!! People DO NOT have a right to Not Be Interrupted. 

BUT ALSO!!! People just being a Shit and murderboning whenever is a really good way to disrupt the social fabric and make people angry at each other. 

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It's definitely different when it's highpop, and most of the stuff I've said here does NOT apply during that time. This should not be applied to highpop, pretty much at all. 

People can tell me to "move to RP", but I will not. I have spent a long damn time learning social norms and how to properly interact with people (I still make mistakes sometimes as we all do, I'm trying my damn best). 

I am autistic, and a lot of people who play this game are autistic, yeah, but RP suffocates me, and it is like having to learn an entirely different dialect in order to be interesting. I am me, I can "act" according to specific situations, but I cannot play a "new" character. I do not want to have a metaphorical gun to my head (being yelled at by admins) to force me into being interesting and adhering to their sets of norms. 

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I actually REALLY WANT people to poke holes in things I've said and problems that I may not have considered. As well as just to have a discussion on this topic (what is "To Be Done" for lowpop and how to not keep the population from further drying up?)

[KikiMofo]

I don't want people being forced to RP or "escalate properly" on Classic Goon.
If you want escalation rules then play on the RP servers.
I don't mean to sound callous but Classic Goon is Classic Goon for a reason.
Sometimes you just get fucked over and thats how SS13 is sometimes.

[Jimbo20]

Sure. Completely valid, and I have no attachment to this suggestion at all. I don't care about the 1 star, because that is valuable feedback.

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There may not even be anything that "needs" to be done, my doing of this is just an indication that something "might" be wrong.

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If anyone was "forced" to escalate on lowpop, any "rules" would probably have to be quite lax.

My intention behind this was just, to ask if there was any way to *encourage* facilitating good flow of a round on low pop, rather than instant murder everyone (I have seen this make people quite angry). But really it doesn't actually matter.

If it's not needed, it's not needed. Different perspectives are appreciated.

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OTHER people getting angry was just the main concern I had. I don't want people to get angry over silly little spaceman game, and let it affect their day.

[Jimbo20]

Update: I have decided this thread was unnecessary. I was just concerned about others reactions to people "rampaging" on low pop.

Goon 2 showed that "unenforced etiquette" does not work.

People cannot be forced to do anything either.

Classic is "do what you want", but it's fun when people decide to be fun. Being unfun is not breaking the rules (except when it is), and people have the right to do what they want. Free will is the law of the land (again within the rules)

I don't care about people murdering on highpop in the slightest, was just wondering if anyone was concerned about it on really-really low pop.

Think this thread should be locked and placed in "bad ideas" 😉

[meaow589]

it annoying sometime when you just die by random thing without warning in classic.but i don’t think it need to change that much.

[Lord_earthfire]

I mean... classic's pop is very low nowadays. And at least from what i heard, people are often switching because of constant rampages.

Considering the population, the question is verified if it needs to change. I dunno if escalation rules are the solution, there may be other solutions as well.

[Snoid]

I mean... classic's pop is very low nowadays. And at least from what i heard, people are often switching because of constant rampages.

Considering the population, the question is verified if it needs to change. I dunno if escalation rules are the solution, there may be other solutions as well.

rampages dont even happen much anymore, that was an issue like a year ago but nowadays its really not the case. most antags that wanna "win" just wipe sec and not bother anyone else unless they fight back. theres a few noteable exception rampagers tho.

 now granted the OP is talking about when its extremely lowpop which is when i dont play (because no one else plays) so idk if theres different tendencies from the lowlowpop players to act like that. if someones consistently killing everyone else online then that might be worth ahelping

[Frank_Stein]

I feel like there's some radical solutions you could put in place, like disabling antags when the population is too low and dialing up event frequency for a more PVE than a PVP experience.

We can't always respond to admin helps, but you should always report it so we can use the record of it to establish patterns of behavior from certain players.

[Jimbo20]

(ok I wrote something and idk what happened to it, seemed to disappear idk if it's just invisible to me, I'll try summarize it briefly)

Snoid's comment verifies what I have been seeing. Rampages are much less common these days, and people who Go Loud seem to, more often, go for sec/command rather than going straight for the regular people (pure rampages do still happen, and it can be fun to be scared, and arm yourself up to try defend yourself -- it's more fun when it's not every shift, but the focus of this thread is lowpop)

I really like the proposal of more PVE events on really-lowpop, and no antags. Possibilities I thought of could be a much *lowered* chance of there even being a roundstart antag, or antags could spawn more often in the middle/later part of a round. (not gonna be midrolls of dead people, so, maybe sleeper agent possibility? idk)

More PVE events + possibility of a late antag = people can do their projects, and still have the possibility of doing funny evil stuff with the projects they're doing on Really Low Pop, and Later in the shift.

[RSOD]

a big issue with me about dying in classic is when i have zero time to react — sometimes i get magdumped and watch as my health drops faster than i can even react / do anything meaningful just because the traitor in question Felt Like It and wanted me dead for whatever reason
unfortunately, given it's classic, i have no idea what ends up being ahelp worthy behavior and what isn't, so 99% of the time i never even actually report anything