Modern goonstation rounds are kind of directonless

[Mouse]

I mean, either people care too little about antags or they care too much. They aren't exactly compatible options.

w/r/t the specific wizard example, I think that has more to do with fundamental flaws in wizard design rather than any sort of validhunting thing. A wizard who can't cast spells is harmless and easily killed. A wizard who can cast spells is capable of murdering the entire crew and being basically untouchable short of turbonerdery. Particularly if they take a rampage-oriented spell like Arse Nath.

edit: for what it's worth, the antag-ignoring by new players appears to mostly be done under the assumption if they don't do anything they won't get killed. There's not much you can do to stop that short of intentionally murdering people because they aren't getting involved in an effort to save their own hides, but at least some of the folks complaining about people being apathetic will go and spare folks who do that so...

[Sundance]

Not really relevant to the thread, but it'd be nice if Wizards themselves were tweaked so they're less rampage oriented and more obnoxiously annoying, like a clown on steroids. At least then it might fit in better for the RP servers.

The whole concept of Wizard that it's a glass cannon is a really tired trope. With wizard, you kill or be killed, and this creates a schism of turbonerdery that Mouse has outlined. There's no middle ground like there is with other antagonists.

More Sticks and Snakes, Less Empower/Rathen Secret wizard.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

Wizard is just "kill everybody in X". But not in a fun way like nukies.

[Drago156]

I think currently antags are disabled from getting late-spawn antag roles. I think maybe for normal traitors/spies having it so they could respawn at higher chance as a wraith could be cool IF wraiths in their current state weren't so borked in design.

As for antag behaviour and response, my gripe isn't with validhunting or murderboning, but rather the complete opposite direction. Friendly antags and a total ignorance of antags by crew are the things that kind of tick me off the most.

[Arcvasti]

Wizard is just "kill everybody in X". But not in a fun way like nukies.

The obvious solution is to turn Wizard mode into Wiz Ops mode.

[vampirate]

Would be kinda nice if the antags who bought a card to the listening post could by some semi cheap tickets to a cloner that randomizes name, first one being free. I had made a thread about a VIP card that would unlock a special area of the listening post for 10 crystals even at one point but it didn't go anywhere.

[Wisecrack34]

I think if this is an issue, it shouldn't be fixed mechanically but with a pamphlet or via discussion.

Be the change you want to see sorta deal, call out players for not being fun (In a polite and suggestive manner, don't make them feel bad >:C ), etc.

On the wizard part though, yeah I can see issues there, give it a day then post a suggestion in ideas?

[vampirate]

I think if this is an issue, it shouldn't be fixed mechanically but with a pamphlet or via discussion.

Be the change you want to see sorta deal, call out players for not being fun (In a polite and suggestive manner, don't make them feel bad >:C ), etc.

On the wizard part though, yeah I can see issues there, give it a day then post a suggestion in ideas?

Those players want that salt :p . Also if you do call out, you'll be considered the problem not them :-/ This really has to be fixed from an either administrative level or implimentation one.

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Might be funny if admins could toggle a flag on known power gamers (at least valid hunting ones)that rrewards the people who kill them on their antag round with an antag token. Could be fun for said power gamers and the folk involved. Just an idea, tho one I don't see getting any traction.

[Drago156]

As a formerly very shitty powergamer, what ultimately opened my eyes to it being a problem and made me change was seeing some of the reactions on my HoS app as well as the general dislike and disapproval from the community of my behaviours then.

Community feedback and reputation are definitely a way of getting powergamers to realize that what they're doing is an issue, and further so is an admin speaking to them about it. Sadly this won't work for all of them.

The ultimately worse option to stopping powergaming is to out powergame, which most likely will either make the person realize that powergaming will result in equally unfun opposition and make them chill a little or make them leave. Of course even then some may never stop.

[Tribaja]

I really don't see the problem tbh, this shit has been going on for over a decade and turbonerds have always come and gone or change once they get tired of it, just the way it is. The new player apathy towards antags will change as well once they get more comfortable with the game and they too will become the powergaming turbonerds until they get sick of it. Rinse and repeat. The apathy aspect is just more pronounced now because of the sheer volume of new players.

[Technature]

Be the change you want to see sorta deal, call out players for not being fun (In a polite and suggestive manner, don't make them feel bad >:C ), etc.

While I agree with this, I'm also aware that it generally doesn't work.

AI players that call out antags ordering gear or lings eating their first person 5 minutes in almost always will, and no amount of "It kills the fun to remove the antag before they even do anything noteworthy" will change their mind.

All they care about is the fact that they helped to "beat the bad guy".

Ironically, these are usually the same people that hate extended.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

I really don't see the problem tbh, this shit has been going on for over a decade and turbonerds have always come and gone or change once they get tired of it, just the way it is. The new player apathy towards antags will change as well once they get more comfortable with the game and they too will become the powergaming turbonerds until they get sick of it. Rinse and repeat. The apathy aspect is just more pronounced now because of the sheer volume of new players.

Yeah IMO it should be a healthy balence between "kill antags" and "run a space-station".