Shambler tuning

[RichardGere]

So we've had a few discussions on discord regarding the shambling abomination (aka the shambler), how it fits in in our current ecosystem and how it measures up to our expectations around balance. The general feeling that I've gathered from these discussions is that the shambler is a little overtuned, and some changes are probably needed. I'd like this thread to be a center of discussion around this topic, so we can more easily organize and collect any ideas that people come up with.

Some of the concerns that I've gathered from the various discord discussions are:

- Shamblers can stunlock too easily.
- Shamblers can suplex without knocking themselves down (this is another way to stunlock besides punching).
- Gene mods can remove its intended primary weakness (fire resistance).
- The form can be sustained almost indefinitely.

Now, I wanna highlight the last point, because it's something that I've been able to try out and also reproduce. 
Currently, horror form has no initial cost, no cooldown, and the only requirement is that you're at or above 15 DNA points in order to turn into a shambler (provided that you're in human form). When entering the form, your DNA points will tick down by 1 per Life cycle (that's 1 point approximately every 4 seconds).
Due to how easy it is to stunlock and subsequently devour people (netting you a whopping 10 extra DNA points), you can sustain this form practically indefinitely (depending on crew response) by chaining devours over and over.

I don't think it was intended to be this way; personally I see shambler as a short power-up that you use to win tough fights or get out of a losing battle alive, but at the cost of chewing through your DNA supply. By supplying the shambler with DNA points as a reward for winning such fights, this idea of being a costly temporary boost falls flat.

This has also been discussed on the discord, and these are some of the suggested changes that I've picked up regarding sustainability:

- Add an initial DNA cost to horror form.
- Add a cooldown to horror form.
- Ramp up the DNA drain over time.
- Add a flat increase to the DNA drain.
- Any DNA points gained during horror form is only gained after the changeling exits horror form.
- Remove the ability to gain DNA from devour (but otherwise it works just like before).

Obviously there may be more ideas floating around there, some of them might even concern other aspects of the shambling abomination.
If you have any such input to contribute with, or just want to put your two cents in, please post your thoughts in this thread so that
both the developers and other members of the community have some rough overview of what people are thinking.

Footnote:
Recently there was a bug that made the regeneration ability more or less instantly heal the shambler to full health - this was fixed as of June 24.
If you've had any issues with finding it impossible or very difficult to kill a shambler before June 24, that bug is probably why.

[Tarmunora]

Having shambler form override fire/thermal resist while active (to lose burn immunity) would be fair I think, seeing as fire is essentially the one weakness of horror form

Sidenote: if shambler DNA drain is only 1 per 4s, then I believe that's an oversight and should be 2 per 4s (missing mult adjustment).

A couple interesting suggestions that I saw floated in the discord: prevent abom arms from holding/using items, a la bear arms (to prevent the use of fire extinguishers/guns/meds/etc while shambling), and make equipment get 'absorbed' temporarily instead of falling to the floor, to make horrorform more usable as an escape

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

I'm down with shortening how long it can last but I also kinda like the "stay away without lots of fire" thing shambler has.

[GORE]

Honestly - if you manage to eat a person with fire resistance and play out their thermal resistance mutation that is fair game.

You seem to think Shamblers are horribly unbalanced but I've seen plenty Shamblers getting squashed on the shuttle by the crew.

Decreasing their active time,...
Limitting the ability to receive DNA points by consuming people,...
Cutting mutation benefits by devouring the right targets,...
Removing stun-locks,...

Nay. I don't think there is a big of a Shambler problem to warrant just changing it into a weaker version of a vampire mixed with the Hulk.

[GORE]

I revise my statement after the last round.

Nerfs are needed.

Go ahead.

[SageAcrin]

After a round where I was (one of -eight partitions-) controlling a very large flock, and got to fight a shambler for at least ten solid minutes in a situation where.... really ostensibly due to leaving no corpses things should have been at least somewhat advantageous... I do think at least something may be needed. Between that and watching another shambler rampage(which in some ways bothered me more-some things humans can crack out to deal with shamblers are more damaging than lil' blue birbs, even if the team had over 300) I agree.

I would rather like it to take the form of a "weakness" more than just DNA lowering(I'm neutral on that). Some thoughts I've had, observing things they've got going for them(feel free to take some, none or all, this is just my rebalance brain after seeing the titan punch things).

A: Lower the stun resist somewhat. This fixes a lot of the stuff talked about(like the hilarious free suplexes) and would make standard sec weapons you know function to slow the beast down somewhat. You're not killing it that way! You may get AWAY THOUGH. It was also bugged until recently, which sort of stealth buffed 'em. Don't lower it a lot IMO. Just... like, enough so that you can drop them with a single weapon for a bit or a crowd can do something with them, instead of "I am rubber, your stuns are glue.".
B: Mess with their weird chem purging behavior some. I don't know when they got this and I'm only going by what I've seen casually as player/admin, but at some point they got strong chem purging. Turning into a shambler should purge all chems-I like that. Raaaahhhh I'm awake. But being a shambler should be more like charcoal than calomel-which is the rate it seemed to purge. That or the shambler I saw swigged calomel and I never saw it. vOv

B2: Mess with it (more?) for incendiary chems if you want to be spicy. A ling full of phlogiston really ought to be dead without treatment.

(This relates to the other situation-watching a shambler shrug off sarin, which used to be a common shambler downer, like it was nothing. Literally nothing-the only visible effect was blurred vision. That was it.)
C: Have being on fire actually function like a nasty status specifically for changelings, if you want to go deep, and increase the impact as shambler. Thoughts off the top of my head; have it do brute/tox based on the amount of burn it would do as the ling's body breaks down, burn over a certain amount causes/intensifies bleed and causes losebreath. Maybe like half the burning and roll a 25% chance of bleed/losebreath if you're over 4 burn-sec. Suddenly fire isn't "fire"-it's a disease to be kept away at all costs. Then just double all figures on a shambler, allowing them to effectively fight uphill that powerful regeneration. (Don't make being set on fire as a ling visibly different though, no checking people for ling by setting them on fire please...)

[Sundance]

Has something changed recently to Abominations that has now made them powerhouses? As always, not directly but perhaps something has a knock-on effect in the code to make them buff?

I mean they always were strong, but I've had very few issues fighting them in the past.

The previous meta for fighting abominations was to simply keep your distance, deprive it of food, it's currently burning its calories by being in this form so run away. That's why it has the Screech ability, to daze players so it can shorten the distance. If the Abomination is showing no signs of stopping, you order AI to bolt that bitch down and wait. Either then it'll escape via space (and revert as there's no food in a vacuum) or revert right there to its own detriment.

It appears with the fresh introduction of new players, that people seem to think rushing the abomination armed simply with a fire extinguisher will suffice? Because they'll just get stunlocked and eaten in seconds, naturally. This probably is only exasperating the current unbalances with Abomination, bringing them out into the limelight.

-----

My suggestions?

1. Look into its current speed. That's one of the balances of abomination - it was meant to be lumbering and slow, a death certificate if it's got you cornered, but if you meet it in a hallway, you should always be able to sprint away from it. Abominations should not be running around hunting people, it's not its design.
The new sprint / run mechanics has probably given this beast a lil boost. Fine tune it.

2. Nerf the fire resist gene. Yeah, that's a tad bit silly, even for it's human form. I wouldn't go so far as the innate fire weakness overriding the gene completely, but I'd make it so that you have reduced fire damage rather than full immunity. 

3. The Maintain Form DNA cost is wonked. As Tam pointed out, it's meant to be 1 DNA per 2 seconds, not 1 every 4. That's no bueno. No wonder its form is being sustained for so long.

4. Remove Suplex stunlock - Keep punch stunlock. Let's be clear, a 3 vs 1 fight of a bunch of assistants vs abom will naturally result in 3 course meal. That's the reality, as I stated before, if you're not armed correctly your best strategy is to run away and order the AI to observe it so you can target the abomination as soon as it reverts. 

However 3 prepared players vs 1 abomination should be neck and neck. Keep your distance, don't get punched, drag away players to prevent feeding. The suplex stunlock kind of changes this, as it allows you to keep one player constantly down by tapping C, while your punch keeps another player down and your neuro has knocked out/messed up the other. If the abomination has any stun weaponry, that's game over man.

I'd remove the suplex stunlock entirely, but i'd keep the punch stunlock. 

The punch stunlock comes at a caveat that it knocks the players across the room - if this isn't happening or has changed, then the knock needs to guaranteed, as again it reinforces the concept that the abom in a slow and lumbering beast, when you actively push your food to the other end of the room that's detrimental to yourself.

---

All those other points regarding sustainability are a bit meh when you consider the maintain form is wonked.

[TDHooligan]

There was a bug that let stun weapons stun folk with full stamina, so long as they were disoriented. I think that used to keep lings down a lot, now they're pretty much free to do as they please.
They were also made anchored, too, so there's no spacing them either.
I used to see them stunbattoned and helpless while people wailed on them, staying alive solely because of their obscene death threshold, but now they're pretty happily holding their own against vast quantities of crew.

Now they have some pretty ludicrous stats (+1000 max stamina, +1000 max stamina/tick) which i'm pretty sure were added because of said stun bug.
Would be neat to possibly tone down their stamina max to at least let a full security team stun it, if only briefly, since they're now immovable.