Head of Personnel Suggestions

[Ed Venture]

I never had a argument? Your entire argument from day one was that it's a issue that's not even happening and that security will be nothing but Super-Cops if they dare to stop the HoP from fucking them over.

At the time of this post I had no idea you were one of the shit players doing this.

no one plays sec because it's the most antifun job in the game and acting like an annoying supercop will do nothing but make people hate sec more and put people off from playing sec

You then replied to one person saying how Security is not fun which alot of people disagreed with you on.

sec isn't very fun because of how reactive is. not many people derive pleasure from just sitting and waiting for stuff to happen so then they have something to do

I am posting this quotes to show you have a bias towards Security and I'd go as far as to say you even hold a Grudge on the Job and it's players after hearing stories of you in recent times and experiencing you raiding security twice and playing HoP and giving out all access. Each time you do it you suicide the moment we try to arrest you. This is after Grayshift said he will ban people like you who griefs Security by proxy.

and the all access id thing isn't even a problem, this was just started by ed venture who just loves to make kneejerk complaints/threads

After a few days and seeing how people were still talking about the issue you decided that the way you play your rounds and how you fuck with Security is in danger. So you try to discredit me and accuse me of pretty much lying.

While we are at it let's look at the definition of the phrase of "Kneejerk reaction"

"It's an expression/saying meaning: An immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive"

See nothing about how I handled this supports your claim that I was having a Kneejerk Reaction. I waiting Two weeks to see if it happen more often. At first it was twice out of a five round session I would play a day. Then as we got to the second week it started happening Four out of Five rounds I played. At this point I started thinking about how to bring it up to the community while at the same time getting feedback on other crimes that go unpunished.

i don't think blaming the hop will do anything. if anything it just boils down to powergamers powergaming and wanting weapons and the fact that people just love to fuck with security. you've played for years. you should know these things

Now we get to the point where you start defending HoPs that do this and how they are not to blame. To which I respond with this.

Stopping the HoPs from giving random people all access will help tremendously. I do know these things and I see ways to slow it down. It's always around this time of year when this type of behavior gets unbearable as well. HoPs just give them a shortcut and after seeing round after round of people running up to the HoP and asking for All access and the HoP just giving it away I had to say something and I for sure put some of the blame on them.

The "that's just have it is deal with it" mentality is a poor excuse for this behavior. I don't care how long some people have been doing it and if that mentality stuck in the past then nothing in the game or the community would have changed. When it becomes excessive like it is now then it's a problem.

You never replied to this post nor tried to prove your point.


After this others called you out on how your views on Security are wrong and you ignored all of them.

Then it starts to come out that you are one of the players that nearly play HoP all the time and do nothing by give out all access in hopes that Security will get fucked with.

some things just really aren't worth fighting for, are they

I feel they might have been easier to fight for if you hadn't joined up as HOP every round, immediately handed out as many all-access IDs as you could, then incited revolution against sec whenever they showed up, Dan.

You went on to post your side of it but it did not really match up what they were saying and having caught you in a lie I believed them over you

I replied to your story with this.

If anything they decided to go after the source. Something I agree with. Also you've been doing this a lot from what I hear though the grapevine and at this point in regards to you I view it as griefing. Not because of my experiences with you (as I've only had one truly bad round with you) but just because it sounds like normal behavior from you. EDIT: Also I love how you were the first person to deny that this issue was even happening and then it comes to light you are one of the people who've been doing the exact thing I described to begin with.

You replied. Your last reply on the subject I should add.

the source of what exactly? this is all being construed as if i personally told each and every person to go be destructive and mortally wound a security officer

edit: my announcement merely said that security took away the all access ids i had provided. that is an objective statement of fact. nowhere did i say "security took away the all access ids. go fuck up the place!"

After this alot of people call you out including myself.

you gave them the access and the shortcut to fuck with security for no reason. You were the source and the means that they were able to do what they did. You share the blame as your action to give all access Ids was the catalyst to the events proceeding it. The HoP has the power to spread chaos by the access they give out. I've explained why the HoPs that do this share the blame in this very thread. Again your intentions are clear you deny and deny even though you do what I describe cause if any change happens it will drasically change how you play your rounds and how you screw with security. Which to me seems like you have a unreal hatred for the role.

No you did not personally tell them what to do. But you knew what they were going to do and that makes you a tad guilty in my opinion.

Following that train of thought, perhaps don't throw out a box of all-access ID's when there's two threads complaining about how HoP's make all access ID's?

Honestly that sounds completely vacant and needlessly ill-disposed, no matter what happened to you in the round. Your intent was clear.

I will jobban people from command roles if I see them engaging in grief-sec-by-proxy. Hand out most access all you want, but take the couple of seconds to remove security and ID computer from those IDs.

I am also encouraging sec to be brutal to those fuckers who can't take a hint after you throw them out once and think it's "wacky" to be the riot guy. Cut their arms off as a warning to the rest.

Brave souls who play security in these dark times, soldier on.

This will have to do until we hash out a code solution.

So all you've done is sprout bullshit that you never backup, Lie and try to discredit me and others who see this happening. You get called out and you never respond to defend yourself and then wait a few days and still say everyone is lying about it and that it's not real. For someone who's been around almost as long as me I expect so much more from you but your nothing but a shitler in my eyes now.

[babayetu83]

i think you are confusing ad hominem with having an argument

[Ed Venture]

i think you are confusing ad hominem with having an argument

Nice Dodge. I expect nothing less.

---

The point is your part of the problem. You do the very thing you say does not happen and try very poorly to sweep it under the rug. I'm not the only one who sees you doing this as I've seen people speak in very poor light of you in recent rounds and they tell me stories of you which I believe as they fit with my experiences with you. My post concerning you fits in the context of the thread as you are a living example of this behavior of HoPs going a little too crazy with the All access IDs. So keep backpedaling and keep lying. That's fine. I've proven my point on your intentions about three times now.

EDIT: Also you said I never had a argument on this subject. Which I clearly do if you read the threads. I was showing that YOU never had a argument on how this was not even happening.

[Xeram]

i think you are confusing ad hominem with having an argument

Ed hasn't gone out of his way to attack you at all, he's just crushed your argument.

Here's some supported ad hominem.

babayetu being dumb:
Spoiler!

Xeram being angry:
Spoiler!

How goddamn empty does your head have to be to fucking see a debate going on about sec and about how HoP's just tossing out all access ID has been an issue that has been going on for a few days at the point this was posted, decide "I'm going to do literally the exact thing that everyone is taking issue with" and tossing out a bunch of fucking all access IDs and announce it to the whole station attracting for sure every powergaming and vengeful shit that happens to be on, making sec come and deal with your shit instead of protecting the crew, and then when they're all gathered you tell a mob of people bumming around for something they'd literally kill for that sec stole them all, and then act SURPRISED when sec tries to stop you? For unleashing a fucking greytide mob on them essentially? And then you decided the best thing to do was lead them around the station for the entire round and shoot lasers back at them when the last time they saw you was with a dying officer? Holy hell what in the fuck is wrong with you, is there even the slightest bit of common sense in there.

[misto]

make the id computer require an id inserted as currently, plus a small fee and a rubberstamped form to scan before it authorizes id changes. this will make id changing mildly time consuming and thus not something that ppl pass out rapidly like candy, while still well within the means of any sensible traitor, yet not excessively time consuming in the case of a hop actually doing their job properly

[Vitatroll]

Well some of my ideas are kneejerk level. Old internet argument tactic; ask for the moon when all you want is McDonalds.

The main problem comes from the undermining of sec. This one issue affects two major game aspects: sec and boundaries. I know it's popular to be all 'WOO ANARCHY YEAAAH!' on the internet, but games are enhanced by restrictions and consequences. Making things easier doesn't make them better.

If AAIDs were given out to everyone all the time I'd just quit the game. It'd be nothing but regulars derisively looting departments, people having nerd tantrums over who gets to do what, and AIs choked with gimmick laws. Sounds great.

I know: "What does that have to do with the HoP?"

Why give people power they can't use? It's like giving ghostdrones the ability to shoot people. The inability to give ID-Comp Acces to any card would go a long way. That makes (stealing) the 4 IDs more important, and makes managing the 'WOO ANARCHY YEAAAH' people easier both IC and OOC.

baba: I like ya man, but you gotta stop. You've done far more damage to your own argument than anyone on these forums.

[somepotato]

Keep it level and on topic or I'll lock the thread. With that being said, I wouldn't consider it metagaming if security kept a close eye on the HoP from the beginning of the game.

[medsal15]

Idea based on the sec thread: Make the ID modification computer allow anyone to use it. Yes, anyone. At a cost: People can only give/remove access they have. All access IDs will be rarer, maint access will be given to mostly everyone.

Quote from myself from the bad idea thread.

[Maegor]

Idea based on the sec thread: Make the ID modification computer allow anyone to use it. Yes, anyone. At a cost: People can only give/remove access they have. All access IDs will be rarer, maint access will be given to mostly everyone.

Quote from myself from the bad idea thread.

It will only make people steal more IDs

[Superlagg]

Idea based on the sec thread: Make the ID modification computer allow anyone to use it. Yes, anyone. At a cost: People can only give/remove access they have. All access IDs will be rarer, maint access will be given to mostly everyone.

Quote from myself from the bad idea thread.

It will only make people steal more IDs

Stealing IDs is a good thing, whereas printing IDs is a dumb boring thing. Lot more effort involved than just asking the guy at the counter for all access and hoping for a shrug and a sarcastic job title.

[Maegor]

Stealing IDs is a good thing, whereas printing IDs is a dumb boring thing. Lot more effort involved than just asking the guy at the counter for all access and hoping for a shrug and a sarcastic job title.

No, it means security and command will be atacked for access

[misto]

if you hope that handing out all access ids will stop ppl from attacking security and command i have very bad news - it in fact makes it a lot easier to slaughter security and command

people attacking security and command for access is a GOOD THING because it is security and command's JOBS to obstruct criminals, not give them an easy bypass for the sake of personal safety

[Superlagg]

Personally if I want access I don't have and I don't want to track down the HoP or break the game with packets, I just camp the cloner until someone hauls in a dead guy with the ID I want. As rounds progress, there are always plenty of dead guys who ain't coming back or whom I don't care if they come back to loot.

That said, if your access is even remotely interesting, you can kiss your ID goodbye if anyone decides to clone you.

I still think you should be able to remotely deactivate rogue IDs, maybe with a little blinking light on the card signalling that the feds are on to you. Not agent cards and emagged IDs though, and maybe have some way for non-traitor antags to prevent their stolen access from being denied.

And replace the ID computer's main function with a program that prints you a new ID based on your DNA or body or something, where it finds your entry on the crew manifest and spits out a duplicate ID. Then you can polymorph into people and convince the HoP that you're them, hoping to steal their access. Wait, that's a terrible idea.

[somepotato]

you're all fired from making ideas

[misto]

no! not me!

maybe the hop desk could be protected by one of those indestructible glass doors like the counter at mechanics