Add Clone device able to buy via trader in D.O.C

[meaow589]

D.O.C are the good outpost for heal have surgery room and able to buy medicine 
adding cloner in there list would be great in exhange for expensive price. best way for syndicate doctor

[Kotlol]

If it's more expensive then cargo's, I'd see no problem. Sounds like a fun goal.

[meaow589]

If it's more expensive then cargo's, I'd see no problem. Sounds like a fun goal.

yeah the problem from buying clone kit in cargo is 
As antagonist
1)Everyone know you try to clone hack if you not doctor
2) Alert AI / CE / QM so no stealth choice
As Non-Antag 
1) Still need to access some of stuff like soldering / QM room 
2)In Rampage active round like nukie buying clone kit is take time to prepare 

This idea might make it less obvious and in D.O.C have plenty of resource for set up console easily.

[Taylorstar]

I'd like to voice an opinion against this idea.

Getting a cloning kit is already very easy through cargo or scanning copies with a device analyzer, trying to find a way around that is in a way of trying to avoid roleplay.

In addition its not that much more work to quietly block the delivery route and using your card/ID to order it and pick it up leaving at least a hint that you have done something, if your in a position to steal/intercept a delivery and construct it thats 80% of the challenge.

Stealth/pacifist antagging is already very easy to fall into and catered to, I think more avenues should be made looked at so there are more various routes and approaches to achieve these goals all requiring interacting with other players encouraging creative thinking and approaches whether its a funny RP gimmick. getting all access or stealing someone elses ID. There are good avenues to be explored.

[Agent reburG]

I'd like to voice an opinion against this idea.

Getting a cloning kit is already very easy through cargo or scanning copies with a device analyzer, trying to find a way around that is in a way of trying to avoid roleplay.

In addition its not that much more work to quietly block the delivery route and using your card/ID to order it and pick it up leaving at least a hint that you have done something, if your in a position to steal/intercept a delivery and construct it thats 80% of the challenge.

Stealth/pacifist antagging is already very easy to fall into and catered to, I think more avenues should be made looked at so there are more various routes and approaches to achieve these goals all requiring interacting with other players encouraging creative thinking and approaches whether its a funny RP gimmick. getting all access or stealing someone elses ID. There are good avenues to be explored.

Yeah no the real issue is the PDA alert, completely compromising any stealth approach. 
I mean sure, it technically is possible, you just need to eliminate the AI, have everyone turn their PDA off and Cargo empty. Plus the Cargo Logs always can be checked. 
Congratulations, you spend 40-60 minutes so you can actually start your intended RP. 

Making it per MechScan? Honey, the road bump is honey. 
You need to invest either quite some time to do it yourself, ask Botanist (meaning there need to be some and pray they actually do it) or get it per A-Zone aka Meta-ing at least somewhat. 

The problem isn't the lack of ways to acquiring a Cloner Kit, it is the investment needed of your most relevant resource as an Antag: Time. 

I'm very much pro this. Just getting the basis of your RP with a cloner requiring so much time is frustrating, because working so hard for this, just to be found out through the traces left behind by the acquisition is pure purgatory.

[Kotlol]

I'd like to voice an opinion against this idea.

Getting a cloning kit is already very easy through cargo or scanning copies with a device analyzer, trying to find a way around that is in a way of trying to avoid roleplay.

In addition its not that much more work to quietly block the delivery route and using your card/ID to order it and pick it up leaving at least a hint that you have done something, if your in a position to steal/intercept a delivery and construct it thats 80% of the challenge.

Stealth/pacifist antagging is already very easy to fall into and catered to, I think more avenues should be made looked at so there are more various routes and approaches to achieve these goals all requiring interacting with other players encouraging creative thinking and approaches whether its a funny RP gimmick. getting all access or stealing someone elses ID. There are good avenues to be explored.

It still requires atleast something like 50k+ credits to obtain. Maybe more depending on the pricing.
That still requires antagging in another sense or doing something to get that much capital unless you are the HoP messing with the paychecks/bank statements.

You have to be very obivious to obtain one right now, with this.. it's still obivious but less painful. You need to amass a lot of credits by yourself.
Now you don't need to involve several witnesses. Or less. You still need specific gear to build the dang thing and if you ain't an engineer that means one thing... stealing engineerings stuff just in case.

This only removes cargo from the equisation and adds another route to obtain a cloner. Wich in my opinion is good. What if cargo got bombed and can't order? Now you can buy one from a trader by using the funds you collectively have as a station. So it's a net plus to fight mad bombers and it's a net plus for antags.
The only minus is the fact you don't need cargo.

I love being obivious as an antag but I love giving players options more. Cause in the end... the antag will leave a lead and once the evil cloning starts? PDA's will go off and AI's will be looking.

[Taylorstar]

Honey is easily acquirable in the debris field on the bee ship as an engineer I quite often go there as its quicker to grab a pod fly over then fly back and make the spare cloner because it can take an age before bee's lay honey.

Just as a theory craft idea for a stealth run on making a cloner as an antag I think the approach I would take is going to the asteroid field and breaking into the engineering outpost to grab a device analyzer and soldering iron, I would head to the Bee ship in the debris field and grab some honey I would then head to the small botany ship in the debris field and plant some synthmeat plants with a dab of saltpetre and potash in the trays.

While they are growing head to medbay posing as an engineer or support staff member getting scans of equipment is an easy bluff, hell you could just ask for a clone scan and discretely scan the equipment if you play your cards right, grab some extra steel and and copper from public fabricators or other accessible places for materials like steel sheets and wire etc, return to the botany ship in debris field grab the synthflesh to use as biomatter then head to the asteroid field engineer outpost drop the analyzer scans in the ruck print out what you need then take that stuff to wherever you wish to set up the cloner.

Is my approach power gamey? maybe... using my knowledge of the maps prefabs etc as meta knowledge? most likely. The approach remains discrete and its set up time is maybe 10 minutes? depends how quick you can get into the engineering outpost and how quickly you can deal with the drones around the botany ship. As for the cloning alert im not sure if a signal jammer from the syndicate listening post would block it, if that wouldn't do it I don't know what else would or how you can discretely acquire a body and clone it.

If I was going for the stealth antag approach or wanted to set up the gimmick before drawing attention to myself that is probably how I would do it, what do you guys think?

[meaow589]

Honey is easily acquirable in the debris field on the bee ship as an engineer I quite often go there as its quicker to grab a pod fly over then fly back and make the spare cloner because it can take an age before bee's lay honey.

Just as a theory craft idea for a stealth run on making a cloner as an antag I think the approach I would take is going to the asteroid field and breaking into the engineering outpost to grab a device analyzer and soldering iron, I would head to the Bee ship in the debris field and grab some honey I would then head to the small botany ship in the debris field and plant some synthmeat plants with a dab of saltpetre and potash in the trays.

While they are growing head to medbay posing as an engineer or support staff member getting scans of equipment is an easy bluff, hell you could just ask for a clone scan and discretely scan the equipment if you play your cards right, grab some extra steel and and copper from public fabricators or other accessible places for materials like steel sheets and wire etc, return to the botany ship in debris field grab the synthflesh to use as biomatter then head to the asteroid field engineer outpost drop the analyzer scans in the ruck print out what you need then take that stuff to wherever you wish to set up the cloner.

Is my approach power gamey? maybe... using my knowledge of the maps prefabs etc as meta knowledge? most likely. The approach remains discrete and its set up time is maybe 10 minutes? depends how quick you can get into the engineering outpost and how quickly you can deal with the drones around the botany ship. As for the cloning alert im not sure if a signal jammer from the syndicate listening post would block it, if that wouldn't do it I don't know what else would or how you can discretely acquire a body and clone it.

If I was going for the stealth antag approach or wanted to set up the gimmick before drawing attention to myself that is probably how I would do it, what do you guys think?

Base on your previous about RP reason support rush to grab honey / Engineer outpost is metagaming for speed run cloner which is quite not good  in RP server.(still possible but not recommend) .

[Taylorstar]

I was just theorizing on the stealth run antag approach not an RP approach which isn't much different from the proposed going to merchant DOC. If the cloner was as expensive if not more then there is still that very significant hurdle of affording it. I don't feel The honey in the bee ship is outright bad on its own since there are multiple blobs of it in the ship and on its own its not powerful or denying other departments/players from a rare unproduceable item like rushing lockers for a revolver shotgun.

I love the idea of the traitor cloner, Everytime I've seen an antag succesfully pull of and raise an army of mind hacked people including security staff it has lead to very exciting rounds and I'm all for making life easier for antags to get the tools they need to tell a story and do a gimmick especially if its quicker and more efficient.

I think everyone has their own ideas on what is "the best way for" and where such actions are appropriate in which settings. As someone who solely plays on RP I'm always going to be more in favour for adding more routes that require interacting and working with other players and departments rather than adding ways that can circumvent options that are already in place.

[JORJ949]

Honey can be bought from cargo in one of the catering crates iirc, though when you have a mindhack cloner nobodys checking the supply records to see you ordered an extra cloning pod. You could as a doctor just say you want a backup copy of cloning and say it got stolen or something, I think the mindhack cloner already leaves very little trace if you set one up offstation (no implants) so giving a paper trail for a detective to pick up on is a good thing in my opinion. I'd rather the supply records be alterable in some way, perhaps with a cargo netpass or something you have to use to spoof a command to clear a record.

[meaow589]

Honey can be bought from cargo in one of the catering crates iirc, though when you have a mindhack cloner nobodys checking the supply records to see you ordered an extra cloning pod. You could as a doctor just say you want a backup copy of cloning and say it got stolen or something, I think the mindhack cloner already leaves very little trace if you set one up offstation (no implants) so giving a paper trail for a detective to pick up on is a good thing in my opinion. I'd rather the supply records be alterable in some way, perhaps with a cargo netpass or something you have to use to spoof a command to clear a record.

thank about honey tip. good point for mention about clue. yes it quite already stealth if you set up off-station. but the fact that buying cloner or mech scan it is still alert entire department is abit too much (mech scan are often stealth ) i also like about use packet / dwaine to change-delete record. however your argument still support only antagonist side. not for Non-antagonist still sometimeneed it in case of some one really try to mess with QM console. for simple situation nukie at cargo. / artifact bomb at cargo.

[JORJ949]

If a nonantag needs something from cargo pool money into a bank account and order it manually from a request console.

[Vulwin_Gilran]

for the example of it helping non-antags since you can fix up the cloner better, i dont think we need more ways to make bombing cloning futile for causing disruptions. because in the rare case an engineer hasnt gotten backup scans of the equipment or they bombed every single ruck on station, there is STILL cargo who can buy one. and then if they also disrupted cargo I think thats an immense amount of effort put in and it would personally be annoying as hell to me if my whole gimmick was to get rid of cloning because its impure etc. and i put in all this effort, and some random guy goes "nah its fine" and vanishes into space and just comes back with a full cloner setup.

---

Double post but also, I have on multiple occasions as a rogue borg do shit like buy actual EMITTERS and singulo generators through cargo and no one has noticed. I am also not sure where it sends the pda notification message from, but if that isnt already able to be jammed with a signal jammer it perhaps could be something that SHOULD be jammable so you can plan your stealth out, just with a bit of extra tc.

[meaow589]

---

Double post but also, I have on multiple occasions as a rogue borg do shit like buy actual EMITTERS and singulo generators through cargo and no one has noticed. I am also not sure where it sends the pda notification message from, but if that isnt already able to be jammed with a signal jammer it perhaps could be something that SHOULD be jammable so you can plan your stealth out, just with a bit of extra tc.

You mention signal jam would be interesting pretty much if signal jam can block these notification (from specific source not from sender location this would be great strait as well)