Community Poll: Puffer Jackets

[Retrino]

I haven't heard many complaints about the autumn sets and autumn/winter clown suits that I've implemented, so I assume other people either enjoy or at least understand this sorta mechanic with those implementations.

i do like having seasonal stuff, but i think a big difference between these and the ones you made is that they were designed with the season in mind. they very much read as fall and winter, and feel appropriate to their season and a bit odd to see outside of them. thats probably why it comes up for puffers and not those

[Solenoid]

I'm fine with puffers remaining seasonally locked, but would love some non-puffer variants to be made of some of the jackets. I love the construction/hazard yellow puffer jacket in particular, having a version of that but more slimmed down would be nice for other seasons because it fits so well with the engineering outfits. Albeit, this idea would require more work, spriting, etc., so take it with a grain of salt. Ultimately, not really for/against making them year round, I'm fine with their current state and don't think it's worth voting on again, but I do wish the unique patterns and designs could be brought into year-long clothing items for when it's not winter.

[babayetu83]

personally having clothing items and choice be arbitrarily restricted would make me want to engage with it less. after all why would i want to get attached if it's going to go away? and it all just seems boneheaded when we have players who live in the northern and southern hemispheres so what might be winter for us is not winter for them

Unrelated to the puffer jacket discourse (which I don't really care much about personally so I don't have much of a horse in that race), I think this is a very strange take about seasonal clothing items and features in general. For better or for worse, we've already established that the game's seasons (and sense of time in general) follow the hosting location's; I think lots of people can see that it's a cute idea to have seasonal elements that adds some nice visual variety to the game, and we really do have to arbitrarily pick one seasonal calendar to use to accomplish that. This is just a concession that literally has to be made to implement a year-round seasons mechanic. It'll be snowy in Spacemas even though it's not winter everywhere and I assume people in the southern hemisphere can live with that.

You wear the items because it's fun to dress up a little doll in-game. Seasonal items can contribute to a tone or encourage some variety every now and then. I don't really buy that people will want to avoid wearing a piece of clothes in the game because it won't be something you can *always* wear. Like is it really about getting "attached"? If anything I personally feel that we have so much stacked up variety in clothing that it's nice to see a few articles that have something that genuinely sets them apart a little.

I haven't heard many complaints about the autumn sets and autumn/winter clown suits that I've implemented, so I assume other people either enjoy or at least understand this sorta mechanic with those implementations. Again, disconnected from the entire talk about puffer jackets, I'm more arguing for the existence of seasonally locked clothes and items in general. Helps make those times of year feel all special and cool.

honestly i had no idea there was a "seasonal" mechanic until i saw this thread. i had no idea the puffer jackets being temporary or seasonal clothing existed. i saw the puffer jacket gone from the sec vendor i thought it was weird but didn't think much about it. again speaking purely for myself i don't think it's communicated all that well. it could be that people are unaware that it's a feature unless you keep your ear close to the ground in discord/github so it can feel like a bit of a rugpull. now again for myself, especially on roleplay, i have a very specific image of my character in my mind. now i'd be a little disappointed if something that was part of that image turned out to be time-sensitive but it's not the end of the world. i'd just look for stuff that i know for sure isn't time sensitive so i wouldn't wouldn't have to go back to the drawing board. i spend a lot of time in games playing virtual dress-up with my characters and sometimes the slightest thing ties the whole look together. i think for some people the puffer jackets were a thing that really tied together their character's outfit/appearance for them judging by the desire for them to return

[Cal]

I'm fine with puffers remaining seasonally locked, but would love some non-puffer variants to be made of some of the jackets. 

[JOELED]

I liked the puffer jackets because they gave outerwear options to a few jobs that don't otherwise have them (janitor, rancher, botanist). There's the jackets available in the clothing booth and there's the generic winter coats you can get cargo to buy you, but I like looking like the job I'm playing in a round. Having that as an option was really nice

[Solenoid]

I'm fine with puffers remaining seasonally locked, but would love some non-puffer variants to be made of some of the jackets. 

I'm aware of the normal winter coats, I was primarily referring to the hi-vis jacket. It's a nice design not available in a non-puffer form, so I was just saying it'd be nice to have a form of it year-round. The hi-vis vest is fine and works too of course, but I was just sharing feedback on puffer jackets in general so my thoughts could be seen. 

[Cal]

Yeah id personally be down to keep the Vis vest, looks cool and makes sense for engineers working in freezing breaches

[JOELED]

Absolutely agree on the hivis puffer, it's 100% my favourite and looks so fucking sick, it genuinely made me roll engineer a LOT more during the months they were live + I was playing specifically because it felt so cool to be rocking that hivis jacket (which is nice because we can always use more engineers)

[witchkit]

yeah i feel like the engineering puffers were some of the best and most fitting. i think one of the parts people like most about the puffers in general is the two-tone designs, where-as most jackets/hoodies are just the one colour. its nice to have clothes that are colourful and stuff. obviously its more spritework and everything but it would be nice if we could have more clothes that give more shape and colour options. i like cal's mention of giving alternate styles based on the winter coats

[Frank_Stein]

I like departmental clothing options. I think we have some precedent with the Head's formal wear, that we could afford some alt clothing options. On that note I think locking some behind specific seasons is also a nice way to give the game the sense of time passage

[Spyritdragon]

It's been a week or two now, and the poll shows a pretty overwhelming preference for having the puffers available on the regular.

Is there a way we can at least get this back up for debate again in some form or way? I feel like a lot of valid points have been made in this thread by different people, and if the decision is still that they're not going to be available outside of the winter season despite all of those, it'd also be nice to know why it's felt that they dont carry enough weight to make year-round availablility a valid point.

[Mrfishstick]

For the sake of developer sanity we're not going to revisit design decisions based upon the results of informal community polling. This has been policy for the entire lifetime of the project and will continue to be the case here. There does not exist a mechanism to compel action from us like you seem to be looking for in this particular situation.

It's our mistake that this was not communicated earlier in the thread and I do apologize for whatever expectations that inadvertently created.

[WhatMG]

Ah, well, that's a pretty big bummer. This is known for the future, I suppose, and may be worthwhile signposting somewhere to avoid repeats of this.

[Spyritdragon]

For the sake of developer sanity we're not going to revisit design decisions based upon the results of informal community polling. This has been policy for the entire lifetime of the project and will continue to be the case here. There does not exist a mechanism to compel action from us like you seem to be looking for in this particular situation.

It's our mistake that this was not communicated earlier in the thread and I do apologize for whatever expectations that inadvertently created.

I never meant to try to 'force' action, so to speak - it would simply be nice given that we have an overwhelmingly popular piece of content here, to at least have an insight into why the decision was made, especially in light of any desire to contribute in the future, so I know what there is even a point in trying to bring arguments forth for and what not. 

From my perception, the initial decision, as stated on github as a 'for now', was just a way to be able to have the PR still go through while still figuring out what would eventually be done with it. Honestly, the main discussion seemed to be about where they should be obtainable - as medals vs in the dispensers - with very little talk about 'Should these be seasonal'. And then now that we've arrive at the point of them leaving the game again, it's suddenly a done deal despite (what seems to me, at least!) some pretty sensible arguments being brought up - that's mostly what's somewhat frustrating me. It feels like the earlier decision was made pretty rushed, and I never felt like we were really in a place where this was something in favour of which we could bring up our points.

If you say 'This is our project, and the answer is simply 'We decide what we feel is nice in the game' (potentially taking into account feedback from the forums and github)', then that's fair and perfectly your prerogative too! But it would be nice to know that, in turn. As an open source project that anyone can contribute to, and which I've been hoping to learn to contribute to as well, it'd be nice to know what exactly the basis is for something being considered a positive addition or not.