Remove Kudzupeople or make some big changes

[Ikea]

Kudzu people mostly just make things awkward and bad to be honest. I dont like killing non antags and it makes me feel like a dick for destroying the thing destroying the hallway. Id be fine with removing them in there current state because all they add to the game currently is just making the rapidly spreading thing that blocks vision and mobility have non antags that you end up killing if you try to kill the kudzu. It doesnt add much besides toxicitiy and negativity.

[George_Manning]

Kudzu people mostly just make things awkward and bad to be honest. I dont like killing non antags and it makes me feel like a dick for destroying the thing destroying the hallway. Id be fine with removing them in there current state because all they add to the game currently is just making the rapidly spreading thing that blocks vision and mobility have non antags that you end up killing if you try to kill the kudzu. It doesnt add much besides toxicitiy and negativity.

I agree 100% with everything here





The event that inspired me to make this post was when someone on Goon2 suicided on top of Kudzu, and then began to grow it as a Kudzuperson. The usual anti-kudzu coalition of randoms formed and one guy got some atrazine in a flamethrower, which caused neglibigle damage to the kudzuperson (but still technically damage) so they started attacking us repeatedly "for the kudzu". I was a secoff so I stunned them and dragged them to genetics to make them human, where they then suicided and said they had "lost respect for me". Everything the player did was kinda dumb and actively harming the station, but they broke no rules. The fact that you can actively spread this blatantly harmful substance as a nonantag is baffling to me, as is the fact that they get the powerful whip and vine arm abilities when the crowd that ends up as kudzupeople are often ones that will defend it to the death.
REPLY 2:

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What can Kudzu people do then?
Be a better botany.
That's right.. Kudzu folk can actually construct their own botany bay from Kudzu that works much better then normal botany.
Their trays are automatic refilling, their trays and plant pcs (yes they get this) do not cost power at all and most of all...
You do not need to order more trays for them to do their job...They just grow some thick kudzu and a new tray is born.
What about seeds? They can grow that themselves out of them, the more kudzu they have.. the faster they can work.

They just can't get materials like Mutagen/Potash/Such right away... but they can work with it.

I was aware of this ability as well .However, as Mongoose brought up, why is it dying on kudzu that makes you an objectively better botanist? Why can some random Joe mechanic that happens to die on kudzu do botany in every way better than an actual botanist? I think, as Mongoose said, the best option for kudzupeople would be to make them some sort of "Achieve Samsara" mega-cool botanist state.

REPLY 3

Generally people trying to burn away kudzu will also attack kudzu people and then all the kudzu people defend their kudzu buddies and the crew sees that as kudzu people attacking the crew and thats what leads to all out brawls.

And the final reply in this chain of three (I am sorry for the text wall) Every round where there's a lot of kudzupeople ends the same. On classic, as we see above, they all get murdered by a mob of angry people after they start attacking crewmembers. On RP, people let them sit around in a corner of the station and grow stuff all round. This isn't creating the emergent gameplay SS13 is known for, it's creating a loop of either frustration or stale, boring RP. I have played enough on both servers to see that kudzuperson-heavy rounds end the same pretty much every single time.

[TheMaskedMan2]

I like kudzupeople as a concept but I feel like they need to be improved upon, or changed - or if you ask me, make them into full mini-antags.

You might say a ton of basically hardmode traitors is too much - but maybe instead of turning people into plant zombies, the kudzu uses their bodies as fuel to make a new antag creature - like, angry kudzu plant babies that grow bigger, which ghosts can take over?

[Kotlol]

I like kudzupeople as a concept but I feel like they need to be improved upon, or changed - or if you ask me, make them into full mini-antags.

You might say a ton of basically hardmode traitors is too much - but maybe instead of turning people into plant zombies, the kudzu uses their bodies as fuel to make a new antag creature - like, angry kudzu plant babies that grow bigger, which ghosts can take over?

People also die to become poltergeists, but you have to wait and get summoned by the wraith. I think this is why we don't see mass suicides when a wraith is around.
So insted of dieing ON KUDZU for this idea... 
The antagonist who plants Kudzu can do the basic kudzu thing.. with kudzu people being an option but only if scientists can get a "Sample" and grow it to benefical or even use this new kudzu to make kudzu people? (Can also go to pathology)

But with your idea, you mutate the seed to hop into a now grown bulb and become a kudzu hivemind leader. Similiar to being a blob/flock mind...so a "plant AI" device?

Meh.. just thinking of silly ideas. But I like this concept abit of Maskedman

[Rilor]

Personally I like kudzupeople as a concept a lot. My personal solution would be to split kudzupeople into two so that we can have both interpretations of kudzupeople.

One version of kudzu that doesnt spread and doesnt slow people down or block line of sight which I'm going to call benign kudzu. The kudzupeople that come from this benign kudzu explicitly aren't antagonists. They would focus on utility with most of the same abilities of current kudzupeople with some more stuff to do and more ways to help the crew. Instead of coming from a traitor this benign kudzu could come from a botany mutation of grass or something. and finally, it could be nice if this version of kudzu could have a bit more fire resistance so that the kudzu botanists don't have to stop smoking weed when they convert.

The other version of kudzu I'm going to call War-Kudzu which spread like kudzu currently does but looks distinct from the benign kudzu above (maybe with spikes or something). Comming from an antagonist planting it, the Kudzusoldiers that come from it would be explicitly antagonists, have more offensive and defensive abilities and could maybe function as a rare-ish standalone conversion antagonist? (Obviously people would be told that dying on it on purpose is against the rules)

Going to be honest the former requires a lot less work than the latter and not entirely sure either suggestion is something anyone other than me wants. But thats my suggestion

[Kotlol]

Personally I like kudzupeople as a concept a lot. My personal solution would be to split kudzupeople into two so that we can have both interpretations of kudzupeople.

One version of kudzu that doesnt spread and doesnt slow people down or block line of sight which I'm going to call benign kudzu. The kudzupeople that come from this benign kudzu explicitly aren't antagonists. They would focus on utility with most of the same abilities of current kudzupeople with some more stuff to do and more ways to help the crew. Instead of coming from a traitor this benign kudzu could come from a botany mutation of grass or something. and finally, it could be nice if this version of kudzu could have a bit more fire resistance so that the kudzu botanists don't have to stop smoking weed when they convert.

The other version of kudzu I'm going to call War-Kudzu which spread like kudzu currently does but looks distinct from the benign kudzu above (maybe with spikes or something). Comming from an antagonist planting it, the Kudzusoldiers that come from it would be explicitly antagonists, have more offensive and defensive abilities and could maybe function as a rare-ish standalone conversion antagonist? (Obviously people would be told that dying on it on purpose is against the rules)

Going to be honest the former requires a lot less work than the latter and not entirely sure either suggestion is something anyone other than me wants. But thats my suggestion

Can I say this for War Kudzu? Don't have players that die on it become antagonists, just their bodies become husks and an AGGRESIVE AI TAKES OVER!
Why?
Cause then people wouldn't want to DIE to become antagonists. We still get Kudzu cults vs WAR KUDZU... but it's similiar to signal cults. People know if you convert your body is no longer under control. Also now you can throw monkeys onto war kudzu to start a monkey kudzu army too.
Also make it more expensive due to this.
Now everyone wants to kill the kudzu since if you die to it... you lose control of your charater wich is bad.

For beingn kudzu. This could be done by eating a kudzu seat when grown from a botanist. Now we got "NATURALIST BOTANISTS" Also beingn kudzu people should not be dieing on top of Kudzu anymore.... but they do get healed/revived/gain energy on top of it. This is so the new kudzu botanists can still move freely and won't grow their shit everywhere just so they can move. Kudzu beingn people also get the "whip abillity" to defend themselves and convert kudzu to trays and such, but if they use it to attack people you can arrest them.
Also if an antag takes this seed they will lose their antag status... since at that point you chose to be good.

[DioChasek]

Personally I like kudzupeople as a concept a lot. My personal solution would be to split kudzupeople into two so that we can have both interpretations of kudzupeople.

One version of kudzu that doesnt spread and doesnt slow people down or block line of sight which I'm going to call benign kudzu. The kudzupeople that come from this benign kudzu explicitly aren't antagonists. They would focus on utility with most of the same abilities of current kudzupeople with some more stuff to do and more ways to help the crew. Instead of coming from a traitor this benign kudzu could come from a botany mutation of grass or something. and finally, it could be nice if this version of kudzu could have a bit more fire resistance so that the kudzu botanists don't have to stop smoking weed when they convert.

The other version of kudzu I'm going to call War-Kudzu which spread like kudzu currently does but looks distinct from the benign kudzu above (maybe with spikes or something). Comming from an antagonist planting it, the Kudzusoldiers that come from it would be explicitly antagonists, have more offensive and defensive abilities and could maybe function as a rare-ish standalone conversion antagonist? (Obviously people would be told that dying on it on purpose is against the rules)

Going to be honest the former requires a lot less work than the latter and not entirely sure either suggestion is something anyone other than me wants. But thats my suggestion

Can I say this for War Kudzu? Don't have players that die on it become antagonists, just their bodies become husks and an AGGRESIVE AI TAKES OVER!
Why?
Cause then people wouldn't want to DIE to become antagonists. We still get Kudzu cults vs WAR KUDZU... but it's similiar to signal cults. People know if you convert your body is no longer under control. Also now you can throw monkeys onto war kudzu to start a monkey kudzu army too.
Also make it more expensive due to this.
Now everyone wants to kill the kudzu since if you die to it... you lose control of your charater wich is bad.

For beingn kudzu. This could be done by eating a kudzu seat when grown from a botanist. Now we got "NATURALIST BOTANISTS" Also beingn kudzu people should not be dieing on top of Kudzu anymore.... but they do get healed/revived/gain energy on top of it. This is so the new kudzu botanists can still move freely and won't grow their shit everywhere just so they can move. Kudzu beingn people also get the "whip abillity" to defend themselves and convert kudzu to trays and such, but if they use it to attack people you can arrest them.
Also if an antag takes this seed they will lose their antag status... since at that point you chose to be good.

This is a pretty good set of ideas.

[Chayot]

A certain Dev already has ideas for Kudzu, however has simply yet to finish them--they regard Kudzu as being only partially finished.
The logs seem to have been deleted thanks to spacebee, it went something like this.

In short, it's meant to be an Antagonist--eventually.
Their build-up will be slow, mostly harmless, featuring pretty plants and the skittering kudzu-person.
Over time, they will accrue "points" (TBD) and begin orienting towards a tower-defense playstyle.
Kudzu will be able to spend points to create defenses; obstacles, turrets, etc.
Or "evolve" into higher-tier Kudzu. Kudzu-Warriors, potentially a Queen(/King).

Personally, I love that they add a Third faction to the round vying for space, resources, etc.
It's always really fun.

That said I can understand the concerns such as crew suiciding onto Kudzu to gain Antag status.
Though the same can technically be done with a vampire, it may be much more prevalent with Kudzu.
Myself, I throw corpses onto Kudzu when they're rotten/cloner is broken. This could be a self-antagonist offense.
So the rules might get weird at that time.

[Kotlol]

A certain Dev already has ideas for Kudzu, however has simply yet to finish them--they regard Kudzu as being only partially finished.
The logs seem to have been deleted thanks to spacebee, it went something like this.

In short, it's meant to be an Antagonist--eventually.
Their build-up will be slow, mostly harmless, featuring pretty plants and the skittering kudzu-person.
Over time, they will accrue "points" (TBD) and begin orienting towards a tower-defense playstyle.
Kudzu will be able to spend points to create defenses; obstacles, turrets, etc.
Or "evolve" into higher-tier Kudzu. Kudzu-Warriors, potentially a Queen(/King).

Personally, I love that they add a Third faction to the round vying for space, resources, etc.
It's always really fun.

That said I can understand the concerns such as crew suiciding onto Kudzu to gain Antag status.
Though the same can technically be done with a vampire, it may be much more prevalent with Kudzu. 
Myself, I throw corpses onto Kudzu when they're rotten/cloner is broken. This could be a self-antagonist offense.
So the rules might get weird at that time.

This sounds like blob but tower defense style.

Also with the vampire you got the following things:
1: The vampire needs to have alot of blood drunk.
2: The vampire decides what the thralls will do, disobdience means death or an admin bonk.
3: Same can be said of Mind Slaving and Emagging a borg.

So all of these require an ANTAGONIST to do this. With Kudzu it's the choice of the player fully. That's the big difference. With Kudzu you can decide yourself to die on it. Where as the others you become an "ANTAGONIST MINION"

My opinion on the tower defense one? Make it for the antag kudzu but have absorbing bodies give points and turn those bodies into turrets. (Similiar to we saw a flower germinate on a monkey) or what I suggested before.. An Aggresive AI will take over their body as a "Kudzu zombie type"

This is why we want to split Kudzu into Beingn and Aggresive period. Since people want to be either an antag kudzu or nice botanist kudzu, but as it is now, you can do both.. but most try to be antagonistic due to the Kudzu being "unknown" or get horribly murdered even if good or bad.

By splitting them into good and evil. There is no more ambigiouty (wich I am sad to see go but hey), but now good kudzu players cannot turn evil unless there is an evil kudzu person that can convert them or something.
The good kudzu can be used to help botanists and medbay and cargo, where as the evil kudzu is a station effort to kill, but insted of it being a distraction from a traitor/spy putting it down while they setup a bomb in another corner of the map... they have to actively work with it.