Complaint on SageAcrin

[FentonStraub]

Admin name: sageacrin
Server: non-rp (goon2)
Date/Time: 2/4/2020

Synopsis: I was banned after being gibbed by sageacrin for fair reasons, I had fed the HOS a floorpill and later tazed him for what i felt was a very unnecessary punishment dished out by him and another security officer. The Sec off had stripped me after stealing the captain's egun, which i had used previously for shooting at a wizard that tried to use prismatic spray on me (which had failed because he ran away as i was firing at him). SageAcrin repeatedly said to me that i "did not fire them anywhere near the wizard" even though i told him many times i was shooting at the wizard (who had doppelganger and was running around after i had fired the first shot). Sage had said i was just "tossing excuses up there" as if I had done something wrong by shooting the wizard with the lasers from the egun and seemed to already assume that I was in the wrong.

Here is a screenshot of the chat log while i was shooting at the wiz that tried to prismaspray me, i retaliated with a few lasers.  https://gyazo.com/942eaa77bd00c920f058a5662f8cc29d


After shooting at the wiz, sec came and stripped me and we went through all that, which i had complained about because they had left me to unhandcuff myself while all of my stuff was on the floor and was getting stolen. the HOS also suplexed me while cuffed and threw me around. They never gave me a reason why they were doing that, but obviously it was because of the gun.
I was quite frustrated from this because stuns are already long as shit when you are slipped as a clown, and they decided to do all this fuckshit to me while i was cuffed, which is even more disrespectful. Afterwards the HOS had told me this - https://gyazo.com/45d08fb72f0783deacbada213a024139

I retaliated by feeding him a single floorpill, which I did while he was helping a wizard by healing him and such. He then tried to taze me before I slipped him with a banana and stole his tazer and tazed him. After this he decided that he wasn't having anymore fun even after telling me to fuck with him, and Sage started to rightfully intervene. https://gyazo.com/dbd3225a3e41d14bc0687362a46c1b36
After that, he gibbed me. Alright, deal, no problem. I retaliated and got the consequence for going too far. Sage then tells me if I didn't understand i would have been daybanned. Okay. Not sure why that was necessary to tell me.
Of course, the HOS has the right to tell me what not to do. But he didn't even try to do that. All he did was strip, taze, cuff and suplex me when he could have been dealing with it the way he SHOULD have, like tell me what i did wrong, maybe take me in and brig me, but instead he wanted to abuse the fact that i was incapacitated and cuffed and suplex and slip me without a given reason in the middle of a hallway. Keep in mind that this round was a wizard round and I wasn't an antagonist

I told sage that I still didnt think it was okay for him to abuse me just for shoving a gun someone carelessly held in their hand, and for using it against an antagonist that had tried to zap me with a superspell. I stated that was my opinion. I wanted a little further explanation, but my intent wasn't to argue with him. Sage proceeded to say that the logs show a four directional fire, and tells me that i didn't spray in any given direction. Then says; https://gyazo.com/c2fe38e1482c04ff58449ae724465c7c

At this point I'm really upset that he said that, because i was genuinely trying to ask for a reason why it was okay for a sec guard to just fuck with you like that, especially the HOS. I replied back to Sage with this. https://gyazo.com/9257a9e59467e031ee480ad254c7b89a and i know, obviously i did steal the captain's egun- but the point of saying that was to ask why I couldn't even ask him why that's okay to just beat someone in the middle of a hallway without even giving them a reason. He could have just said "its okay for sec to beat anyone they want if they do crime" because honestly that's what it seems, and that's not listed anywhere in the rules or anything, so I was genuinely asking an admin, who i thought was supposed to better explain rules and etc. to you that are not clearly expressed, and got day-banned upon sending that message.
Sorry that this report is sort-of all over the place.





Log: not sure how to access logs; took screenshots instead.
Extra Information: the admin didnt fart on my dog but did fuck my wife.
thanks!

---

By the way; this is not being posted with me expecting that this will get me unbanned. I'm okay with being banned for a day but I dont feel like this was the right kind of way to go about doing so.

thanks for reading

[Zamujasa]

Hi. I'm not involved in this but I am looking into it as a somewhat independent person.

Here are the events, as I found them while reading the logs.

- You disarmed the captain and stole his egun
- A wizard used prismatic spray near you
- You fired on the wizard with the lethal setting
- You were arrested and stripped by security officers
- You and OMJ sassed one another, and OMJ suplexed you once

22:46:44 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "this is so much fun, omj"
22:46:46 combat Richard Mann throws PDA-Fenton Straub.
22:46:46 combat The Fenton Who Straubed is struck by PDA-Fenton Straub.
22:46:48 combat The Fenton Who Straubed is struck by the blood-stained clown suit.
22:46:48 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "thanks for making me have fun"
22:46:53 combat The Fenton Who Straubed is struck by the dirty blood-stained clown shoes.
22:46:54 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";stop fucking with the captain"
22:46:57 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "fuck off cunt"

- The security officers gave you a warning and let you go. You were left cuffed and most of your items were returned
- You then stated your intent to murder them in response:

22:47:25 adminhelp The Fenton Who Straubed HELP: i got stripped and thrown around by sec for simply stealing a gun.
22:47:30 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "those cunts cuffed and stripped me"
22:47:33 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "for stealing the idiot caps gun"
22:47:37 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "mind uncuffing me?"
22:47:42 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "im killing them both"

- You then announced you were planning on antagonizing security:

22:48:20 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "; wizards, i was gonna kill you, but i think i'll fuck with sec instead"
22:48:35 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";clown vigilante"
22:48:37 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";go ahead"
22:48:39 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";fuck with sec"
22:48:46 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";it's definitely going to end well for you"
22:48:53 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";big brained move"

- You then assaulted OMJ, and from the looks of it, was attempting to space him from the cafeteria router:

22:49:27 combat The Fenton Who Straubed throws the cream pie at Central Primary Hallway (151,184,1).
22:49:30 combat The Fenton Who Straubed smashes the plate over Old Man Jenkins 's head!
22:49:31 combat The Fenton Who Straubed grabs Old Man Jenkins at Central Primary Hallway (150,184,1).
22:49:33 combat The Fenton Who Straubed drops their grab on Old Man Jenkins
22:49:34 emote Old Man Jenkins Old Man Jenkins waves.
22:49:34 emote Old Man Jenkins Old Man Jenkins winks.
22:49:34 combat The Fenton Who Straubed smashes the plate over Old Man Jenkins 's head!
22:49:36 combat The Fenton Who Straubed grabs Old Man Jenkins at Central Primary Hallway (151,184,1).
22:49:36 combat The Fenton Who Straubed drops their grab on Old Man Jenkins
22:49:36 combat The Fenton Who Straubed throws Old Man Jenkins at Cafeteria Router (151,183,1).
22:49:38 combat The Fenton Who Straubed grabs Old Man Jenkins at Cafeteria Router (151,182,1).
22:49:40 combat The Fenton Who Straubed drops their grab on Old Man Jenkins
22:49:42 combat The Fenton Who Straubed grabs Old Man Jenkins at Cafeteria Router (151,180,1).
22:49:44 combat The Fenton Who Straubed grabs Old Man Jenkins at Cafeteria Router (151,179,1).
22:49:45 combat Old Man Jenkins disarms The Fenton Who Straubed at Cafeteria Router (151,179,1).
22:49:46 combat Old Man Jenkins pushes The Fenton Who Straubed into space.
22:49:46 combat Old Man Jenkins pushes The Fenton Who Straubed into space.
22:49:46 combat Old Man Jenkins disarms The Fenton Who Straubed at Space (151,177,1).
22:49:49 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";well done Cafeteria Router (151,182,1)"
22:49:51 combat The Fenton Who Straubed disarms Old Man Jenkins at Cafeteria Router (151,180,1).
22:49:52 combat The Fenton Who Straubed grabs Old Man Jenkins at Cafeteria Router (151,179,1).
22:49:52 combat Old Man Jenkins disarms The Fenton Who Straubed at Cafeteria Router (151,180,1).
22:49:54 combat The Fenton Who Straubed grabs Old Man Jenkins at Cafeteria Router (151,180,1).
22:49:54 combat Old Man Jenkins attacks The Fenton Who Straubed with Command Headset (/obj/item/device/radio/headset/command/hos, object name: Command Headset) at Cafeteria Router (151,180,1).
22:49:54 combat The Fenton Who Straubed drops their grab on Old Man Jenkins
22:49:56 combat Old Man Jenkins pushes The Fenton Who Straubed into space.
22:49:56 combat Old Man Jenkins pushes The Fenton Who Straubed into space.
22:49:57 combat The Fenton Who Straubed grabs Old Man Jenkins at Space (151,177,1).
22:49:57 emote Old Man Jenkins Old Man Jenkins gasps.
22:49:57 combat Old Man Jenkins pushes The Fenton Who Straubed into space.
22:49:58 combat Old Man Jenkins pushes The Fenton Who Straubed into space.
22:49:58 combat The Fenton Who Straubed drops their grab on Old Man Jenkins
22:50:00 combat Old Man Jenkins attacks The Fenton Who Straubed with Command Headset (/obj/item/device/radio/headset/command/hos, object name: Command Headset) at Cafeteria Router (151,181,1).
22:50:01 combat The Fenton Who Straubed grabs Old Man Jenkins at Cafeteria Router (151,179,1).
22:50:01 combat The Fenton Who Straubed drops their grab on Old Man Jenkins
22:50:02 combat Old Man Jenkins attacks The Fenton Who Straubed with Command Headset (/obj/item/device/radio/headset/command/hos, object name: Command Headset) at Cafeteria Router (151,181,1).
22:50:04 combat Old Man Jenkins disarms The Fenton Who Straubed at Cafeteria Router (151,179,1).

- You further stated that your intent was murder:

22:50:42 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "; if i could use a stun baton, you'd be dead by now Routing Depot (146,161,1)"
22:50:43 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";all i did was shove you and lied own Cafeteria (161,186,1)"
22:50:45 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";down*** Cafeteria (161,186,1)"
22:50:52 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";you got fucked up without any effort East Primary Hallway (171,186,1)"
22:50:52 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "; if i could use a baton, you'd be dead by now Routing Depot (146,160,1)"

- You show up in Medbay and decide to feed the wizard a few floorpills, and then force OMJ to eat one as well:

22:58:10 combat The Fenton Who Straubed tries to force-feed a pill psilocybin (6), acetone (3), fluorine (3), 293.15 K to Old Man Jenkins at Medbay (134,99,1).
22:58:13 combat The Fenton Who Straubed makes Old Man Jenkins swallow a pill psilocybin (6), acetone (3), fluorine (3), 293.15 K at Medbay (134,99,1).
22:58:17 emote Old Man Jenkins Old Man Jenkins screams!
22:58:27 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";fenton Medbay (122,102,1)"
22:58:35 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";did you just make me swallow a fucking floorpill? Medbay (122,102,1)"
22:58:40 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";you're serious? Medbay (122,102,1)"
22:58:41 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "; i would never Central Primary Hallway (122,162,1)"
22:58:48 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";while i'm healing the wzard Medbay (116,101,1)"
22:58:53 say Old Man Jenkins says, ";you feed me a floorpill Medbay (116,101,1)"
22:59:00 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "; i have no idea what you're talking about Fitness Room (146,198,1)"
22:59:16 say The Fenton Who Straubed says, "; i fed the wizard floorpills Fitness Room (152,200,1)"

- You also got another gun and proceeded to taze OMJ several times.

Here are the adminhelp logs between you and SageAcrin.

23:03:15 adminhelp SageAcrin: PM'd Fenton Straub : Okay, so. Now you're tasing the HoS and feeding him floorpills.
23:03:24 adminhelp SageAcrin: PM'd Fenton Straub : And you think that's okay?
23:03:59 adminhelp Fenton Straub PM'd SageAcrin: i mean, he tazed me and stripped and slipped me and suplexed me and made me take my own cuffs off. its about the same thing. he had it coming

Space Law isn't a set of official guidelines, but "grand theft" generally suggests some brig time. Being made to take your own cuffs off, which ordinarily takes 45 seconds, is not really a punishment. Getting stripped (and getting most of your items back) is normal when you steal things! Maybe you shouldn't steal stuff if you can't handle the consequences.

23:04:41 adminhelp Fenton Straub PM'd SageAcrin: if he can be a douchebag towards me, i dont see why doing that is any worse than him doing that as a head of security
23:04:53 adminhelp SageAcrin: PM'd Fenton Straub : He has the right to tell you you can't steal things and you can't fire live ammo in the hallways. You have no right to do potentially lethal actions to the HoS and down him with antagonists around. Do you understand this?
23:05:13 adminhelp SageAcrin: PM'd Fenton Straub : You are a clown. He is a Head of Security. Do you understand the difference in your roles and behaviors and why he did what he did?
23:05:33 adminhelp Fenton Straub PM'd SageAcrin: Yes i understand, the antagonist was in captivity FYI, not excusing or anything
23:05:56 adminhelp SageAcrin: PM'd Fenton Straub : Then you will just be let off with this;
23:06:14 adminhelp Fenton Straub [DEAD]: PM'd SageAcrin: did you get that message

You were let off with being gibbed for constantly antagonizing sec and attempting to murder them.

23:06:17 adminhelp SageAcrin: PM'd Fenton Straub [DEAD]: If you hadn't understood you'd have probably been daybanned.
23:06:29 adminhelp SageAcrin: PM'd Fenton Straub [DEAD]: So, it's good you got the message.
23:07:15 adminhelp Fenton Straub [DEAD]: PM'd SageAcrin: okay, but i still dont think it was okay for him to abuse me just for shoving a gun someone carelessly held in their hand and used it against an antagonist that tried to prisma spray me. that's my opinion

The "abuse" in this case, again, is being arrested and stripped for stealing the captain's gun. I want to make that clear. You did a crime, you paid the time.

23:07:43 adminhelp Fenton Straub [DEAD]: PM'd SageAcrin: but idk if you got my message - are the floorpills really ever lethal because everytiem ive ever used one it's never killed me

The "floorpills clause" exists for a reason, because they often are very dangerous if not outright lethal. One of the ones you fed the wizard contained uranium, which is extremely radioactive.

23:08:36 adminhelp SageAcrin: PM'd Fenton Straub (NPC) [DEAD]: They can be lethal. As to the other part; you perhaps have missed something here. The logs showed no wizard within a screen of you when you did that laser fire. They're good enough to show that.
23:09:08 adminhelp SageAcrin: PM'd Fenton Straub [DEAD]: They also show a four directional fire-in other words you didn't spray in any given direction. They're good enough to show that.
23:09:56 adminhelp SageAcrin: PM'd Fenton Straub [DEAD]: And you still disagree with the HoS's reaction, when it was his place to arrest your for theft anyways? I think I was wrong to give you a lesser handling.
23:09:59 adminhelp Fenton Straub [DEAD]: PM'd SageAcrin: the wizard ran away when he heard the laser shots. i was really trying to shoot the wizard.

I'm gonna put this one in bold:
The logs currently do not properly handle wizard spell casting. This is not Sage's fault, but a failing of the game system itself. Sage did not know this and tried to correlate what you said based on where you and the wizard were.

That being said:

23:11:34 adminhelp Fenton Straub [DEAD]: PM'd SageAcrin: sage what the hell is this? i dont understand why im not able to have a conversation about that action that i felt was unfair towards me. as an admin you should explain to me why its cool for someone to just taze you and cuff you after you didnt do anything wrong and then throw you around and suplex you and just leave you there without a reason or given time for a brig or anything

This message attempts to reframe the entire issue, by insinuating that you "didnt do anything wrong". You did. You assaulted the captain and ran off with their gun.

You fundamentally failed to understand that you did a crime, and decided that you were justified in attempting to murder Security for it.

[OMJ]

he definitely wasn't trying to murder me, he would've taken other measures if so. i didn't handle this the best i could and I apologize for that fenton. also, when he was shooting in the hallways, it was because he expertly slipped me while i was gearing up to shoot him (takes me a couple seconds now).

that being said he did openly say 'im fucking with sec' and did it a few times. i didn't use any weapons during the router incident to show i wasn't rlly interested in engaging with it further. feeding the HoS floorpills while they're trying to heal someone is absolutely fucking bonkers though.

---

he definitely wasn't trying to murder me, he would've taken other measures if so. i didn't handle this the best i could and I apologize for that fenton. also, when he was shooting in the hallways, it was because he expertly slipped me while i was gearing up to shoot him (takes me a couple seconds now).

that being said he did openly say 'im fucking with sec' and did it a few times. i didn't use any weapons during the router incident to show i wasn't rlly interested in engaging with it further. feeding the HoS floorpills while they're trying to heal someone is absolutely fucking bonkers though.

also i didn't just strip him, i left his shit out open in the hallway for anyone to take. he didn't have anything too valuable on him but regardless. i really don't like graytiding and stealing the captains egun as a nonantag clown is textbook definition of it.

[SageAcrin]

Things I would like to have gone better out of this, thinking on my end;

-I wish I had been a bit more coherent and clear in why I was unhappy. I'm currently physically ill though so that's not helping. Put simply though, again; security's actions in punishing crime is not a crew member's in vengeance for slights-let alone for that punishment.

-It's not strictly in Rules, but I have seen this mentioned so many times by so many admins that I'm a bit surprised(it is implicit in a few spots, but not explicit); Griefing Sec for no real reason-or just because they did their job-is worse than griefing most crewmembers, because they're doing a job that sucks a surprising amount of time. We've had no sec at points. It's no fun. Retaliation for doing their job applies in my book.

-I do kinda apologize for messing up on your last paragraph or so you PMed in but the ban went in basically as your PM did. I'm honestly not sure what to say to clarify though since I thought I was communicating the former part.

-I fretted way too much about that dumb gunfire's exact details because I was confused about how little the logs meshed with what you were telling me, and I consider honesty in an APM fairly critical. Forest for the trees moment; The point I was meaning to make was "Security saw you steal a gun and may have heard you spray lasers" and I never quite got to "and also, you never called out what if anything you were firing at". So it gives a sec member that hears it a potential bad impression-and as Security members know, Wizards can be in mixed.

I'll admit, not my best work, but I'll also say; I'm honestly surprised someone has to have explained that "security", aka the cops, has to be treated with some level of respect. Seems odd, particularly when you were actually dealing with the HoS(and anyone that's been playing here a while knows that the HoS is specifically a vetted position of higher trust).

But it just seems odd. I'm not gonna question it too hard. I see some stuff to improve on, and as usual I tend to get grumpy when I doublecheck stories and I can't mesh them with what I'm seeing(A quirk I'm unhappy with but only so far-I want to tone it down, but honestly honest discussion with an admin is important.).

Short version; eh call it 7/10 in my opinion could use work but I don't see that this is that bad so far and other people's commentary don't make me feel like I was doing anything but what I was; trying to communicate to you that theft=okay, arrest=okay, escalation=vast unqualified no because this isn't an escalating fight, this is theft and an arrest, that should be the end.

Now you could have tried stealing Sec's stuff. Theft is okay. But that way lays the people that tear down every wall in security like there's no griefing rule; it's dangerous, and it's also pretty within Security's rights to assign a harsher penalty if you make their job bleeding impossible instead of harder.

[FentonStraub]

I feel like it's important to know the way OMJ was interacting with me during the arrest aswell. A small part was left out of the first log Zamujasa posted where he said, "be shit get treated like shit" or something along the lines while i was cuffed.
This was also another pretty frustrating thing that led me to say that i was going to kill him because i was genuinely pissed off with the way he was acting. especially when i was already cuffed. being a mentor and being around for so long shouldnt give you the permission to shittalk people like that, that doesnt make it any fun for me, getting shittalked in cuffs i mean cmon. but anyway I didnt have any intention of really killing him, i was just very frustrated by that interaction. And OMJ is definitely right in saying i would have taken other measures to murder, if that was an attempt it mustve seemed like a pretty bad one.

[OMJ]

I feel like it's important to know the way OMJ was interacting with me during the arrest aswell. A small part was left out of the first log Zamujasa posted where he said, "be shit get treated like shit" or something along the lines while i was cuffed.
This was also another pretty frustrating thing that led me to say that i was going to kill him because i was genuinely pissed off with the way he was acting. especially when i was already cuffed. being a mentor and being around for so long shouldnt give you the permission to shittalk people like that, that doesnt make it any fun for me, getting shittalked in cuffs i mean cmon. but anyway I didnt have any intention of really killing him, i was just very frustrated by that interaction. And OMJ is definitely right in saying i would have taken other measures to murder, if that was an attempt it mustve seemed like a pretty bad one.

i did say this and I stand by it-but your total time of being cuffed and insulted  (iirc around 1:10 of game time? i don’t have logs but playing back this interaction in my head made me feel like it was that time) was a lot less than what it would’ve took for you to be dragged to sec, set timer, wait out a  90 second timer etc

You cannot do graytide bullshit and expect a reasonable response. It’s good that you were pissed off imo- the captain was very pissed as well. He asked over comms to execute you before I got ahold of you. 

All being said it could’ve been way, way worse for you outside of getting suplexed and roasted. Stealing the captains egun to do vigilante bullshit as a non antag clown (against 4 wizards that were all not overtly lethal- I didn’t try to stop 3/4 and my threshold for hunting down bad guys is very low).


You also  have a history (fmpov) of graytiding as a non antag which I think is important to mention here.  This isn’t the first time I’ve seen you do bullshit like this and then try to flex on sec all round as a non antag. There’s a 0% chance you would’ve stopped if you were dealt with in a non shit way- but granted, you didn’t stop here.