[ANTAGONIST] Make Krampus 3 Unpoppable!

[Ed Venture]

Unkillable antags are not fun

[Cirrial]

Krampus 2.0 was designed to do exactly what people use him for, and now people are mad about him being used as he was intended.

Krampus 2.0 was a two minute bandaid implemented after newly promoted coders saw it was spacemas and didn't want to allow the horror that was Krampus 1.0 to come back.

The fact it was a meatcube should have been a clue to the fact it wasn't something anyone should want to become. It was literally made as a punishment for people who were trying to be shitters and game the system to become Krampus 1.0 and now it's a punishment aimed at people who are most likely no longer around.

It's also worth noting that it was turned into a meatcube in the days before I sent a patch before I became coder that fixed meatcubes being permastunned for the entire round after slipping. Meatcubes used to be a lot more useless and powerless than they are now. Being able to do half of this stuff as a meatcube is pretty much more exploits and awfulness.

The entire spacemas cheer system is busted and I've seen enough people being kind of terrible as Santa that it feels like the whole thing ought to be a game mode and not an every round thing anyway.

Also I'm surprised a lot of people here are talking about the Krampus using pods. I already removed that functionality after watching a Krampus piloted Strelka kill a traitor who would have otherwise succeeded in their solo shuttle escape objective. Are the most vocal people here still people who play this game?

[Xeram]

I know I personally bring up the pod example because it works as a pretty prime indicator/example of the core issue with Krampus, what with every nearly every round guaranteeing an immortal antagonist spawning to ruin everyone's day with nothing that could be done about it. Really it's all come together into a perfect shitstorm, the goal was to make Krampus 2.0 a useless piece of shit, But added features didn't account for an immortal meatcube that is also an antagonist that can use them rather than be useless. The moment limb removal came out Krampus should have been given chronic no-arm condition but that really just leads into the next point:

Because nobody cares about or remembers Krampus except when its being a piece of shit and dragging things down for everyone around them.

So if we have a feature thats part of a broken system, that nobody cares about or remembers or speaks of unless it's actively being shitty, was meant as a punishment for people who are no longer there, and is, in a technical sense, broken since most of the shitty things they can do are oversights or exploits apparently.

Why do we still have it.

Making Krampus poppable is a step in the right direction. Honestly, I think making him functionally similar to an AI shell without tools would be good too. No dragging. No hands. Just pushing and blocking at its own risk. But I agree that the best honestly would just be scrapping the entire spacemas cheer thing, Krampus and Santa, from normal rounds because the flipside of the coin is almost as bad.

In the few rounds that I've seen Santa actually able to spawn, I'd say about 1/3 of them ended up firing laser guns at people who weren't antagonists. Having Santa spawn if you're an antag is a massive game changer, as most of the time it ends up that you now have to deal with a captain who's immune to cold, armed, can teleport, and can generate murderchems to poison you who is specifically out for you probably because you killed them.

[Readster]

Unkillable antags are not fun

Edit: Remember how much people complained about what a pain wraith is to deal with

[Frank_Stein]

EDIT: You know what? As much as I like old Krampus, I think it's more important that everyone enjoys themselves. I can live with a weakened Krampus if it means more people are having fun.

Here's hoping ole Krampus comes back next year new and improved. Happy Spacemas

[Cirrial]

okay the first link to logical fallacies made me frown and seeing someone come back to it with a link to rationalwiki is painting a good picture as to how we're going to start arguing about how to argue real quick

I'm just going to lock this thread now. All valid points for and against have been made, the only direction this argument can take is a self-consuming spiral with the same things repeated over and over. Krampus is not being made invincible, because invincible antagonists are fucking terrible.

Have a nice holiday.