Why security can do not good

[YoukCat]

That same round a staff assistant actually used an inactive AI shell to break into security​, put on an orange jumpsuit, and permabrig themselves.

That was me.

Onto the topic at hand, the reason I side to Caution much of the time is because of the fear of getting banned for killing an innocent. The Brig can certainly be more secure though, as even if you build R-Walls they can just use some cheap tricks to get out like phasing through walls by entering a Disposals can. Along with that, they can do some good for themselves by breaking windows even in the Solitary Cell: Or they can just do away with indoor escape altogether and jump out into space.

This is all in Cogmap1, but personally I find the Solitary Cells in Cogmap2 to be the best cells. Or the Port-a-brig, that thing is top-tier at holding people.

[atamusvaleo]

"Do the crime, do the time."  

I thoroughly enforce space law and often get a lot of slack for it. If someone is breaking into somewhere, I'll warn them to stop, ticket them, and tell them to move on. This very simple act of trying to keep the station intact draws the worst out of some people. I'm often met with insults, violence, or am completely disregarded.

This idea of a "change in the community" is a lofty goal. People feel it's within their right as a non-antag to trespass, break into places, steal items, carry weapons, and so on. So much so, that they are often willing to behave as an antag and damage station, attack officers, evade arrest, etc when confroted about it.

Now, this doesn't mean I'm against someone breaking down a wall to steal some gloves if they're not an antag, but they have to realize that they are breaking the law. This is one of the reasons I feel Space Law needs to be better defined and understood by the community. People need to know what is illegal and legal: what's okay as a non-antag, what's pushing that line, and what's stepping over it.

It's a grey zone that will shift in the eyes of the officers on duty but don't expect to get away unpunished if you're carrying around a flamethrower, hacking doors, or wandering into areas you don't have access to.

It's in this light that we should approach everyone on station. 

I try to be fair and give everyone a chance to show their innocence but when that person then turns around and punches me, they're going to the brig. When they then try continually to escape instead of serving the 10 second sentence I was likely to give them, the timer goes up a few minutes. When they try to attack me, destroy Security, use weapons against me, they're going to get stripped of their ID and tossed in the brig for the full five minutes, and they might "slip in the shower or trip and hit the doorknob a few times" if you know what I mean.

[Frank_Stein]

^That really describes the problem.

People want or need things they can't get to, so they have to do things that are illegal to get them

Which is the point. The station is supposed to be somewhat frustrating with distrust and paranoia sewn about.

I think the intention was people would need to break into areas to loot them but be discrete about it, with Sec being the challenge for them.

But most people don't seem to want the inconvenience of not having what they want, being careful when acquiring it, and having to hide it if they get it.

[Vitatroll]

Oft. times I do stuff to get arrested and don't. Once, earlyround/noantags, I broke into sec - with sec in there. They welcomed me, and offered me donuts. Of course I accepted, and we had a nice 10 minute chat, the three of us.

Am I the threat equivalent of the snuggle bear?

[Sundance]

Depends how you come across.

If you come in and start running around, screaming (heaven forbid, you take a segway) that's a quick way to piss off security.

Another way is if you come in as a crowd, you will be stunned and flung out. Attempting to come in again will resulting in a beating/brigging

However if you come in, on your own, (or even if you asked to come in) and sit down on a seat, no quick movements, nothing that would set of securities radar, then you're likely to be left alone.

Honestly manners in this game goes a long way.

[Lady Birb]

That sorta plays into the time I saw YoukCat break into security and permabrig themselves. They weren't hurting anyone so I let them do their thing.

[Superlagg]

^That really describes the problem.

People want or need things they can't get to, so they have to do things that are illegal to get them

Which is the point. The station is supposed to be somewhat frustrating with distrust and paranoia sewn about.

I think the intention was people would need to break into areas to loot them but be discrete about it, with Sec being the challenge for them.

But most people don't seem to want the inconvenience of not having what they want, being careful when acquiring it, and having to hide it if they get it.

I've heard some stories from other servers where simply possessing a thing that you shouldn't counts as a crime. Things we take for granted as part of your average robustkit, like magboots or a hypospray. Vulpankin help you if you're carrying around an RCD and arent the CE.

It also helps that those things are pretty darn hard to get in general, and that Security can be pretty brutal to misbehavers. As an assistant, I can usually get everything I need by smashing a few windows and rubbing Harner up against some doors. Heck, there's a chemdispenser in the debris field just waiting for someone to blast a million units of godmode juice into an artbeaker and chug it the whole round.

I've never been stopped, even by department heads watching me mine my way into their place of business Dwarf Fortress style. I just *wave and *salute and they must assume I work there.

What I'm getting at is that we're too easy on fun. If you just let me fun around with your stuff, neither of us are gonna have much fun. Don't thank me for smashing your shit, piledrive my ass out into the hallway!

[awfulworldkid]

Yeah, but the ONE job that reliably tosses people out of their workplace gets relentlessly mocked for it, and some people apparently believe that there's no problem with a random staffie running in when the door accidentally gets left open. I trust that everyone will know which department this is.

[Noah Buttes]

Yeah, but the ONE job that reliably tosses people out of their workplace gets relentlessly mocked for it, and some people apparently believe that there's no problem with a random staffie running in when the door accidentally gets left open. I trust that everyone will know which department this is.

Genetics, the barman, and security

[Frank_Stein]

^That really describes the problem.

People want or need things they can't get to, so they have to do things that are illegal to get them

Which is the point. The station is supposed to be somewhat frustrating with distrust and paranoia sewn about.

I think the intention was people would need to break into areas to loot them but be discrete about it, with Sec being the challenge for them.

But most people don't seem to want the inconvenience of not having what they want, being careful when acquiring it, and having to hide it if they get it.

I've heard some stories from other servers where simply possessing a thing that you shouldn't counts as a crime. Things we take for granted as part of your average robustkit, like magboots or a hypospray. Vulpankin help you if you're carrying around an RCD and arent the CE.

It also helps that those things are pretty darn hard to get in general, and that Security can be pretty brutal to misbehavers. As an assistant, I can usually get everything I need by smashing a few windows and rubbing Harner up against some doors. Heck, there's a chemdispenser in the debris field just waiting for someone to blast a million units of godmode juice into an artbeaker and chug it the whole round.

I've never been stopped, even by department heads watching me mine my way into their place of business Dwarf Fortress style. I just *wave and *salute and they must assume I work there.

What I'm getting at is that we're too easy on fun. If you just let me fun around with your stuff, neither of us are gonna have much fun. Don't thank me for smashing your shit, piledrive my ass out into the hallway!

Yeah, it's a matter of Security being a job that has existed prior to a culture shift towards a more permissive and cooperative station

I know I don't bother with arresting anyone for something like that unless I've been specifically asked to from someone from the raided department. Even then, I usually just ask them to leave or to return any stolen items so I can avoid having to make an arrest.

I think we really got to nail down exactly what security is supposed to be doing on their down time, and what kind of environment we want and would consider fun.

[awfulworldkid]

Yeah, but the ONE job that reliably tosses people out of their workplace gets relentlessly mocked for it, and some people apparently believe that there's no problem with a random staffie running in when the door accidentally gets left open. I trust that everyone will know which department this is.

Genetics

At least the Barman and Sec have guns.

[ferriswheel1]

^That really describes the problem.

People want or need things they can't get to, so they have to do things that are illegal to get them

Which is the point. The station is supposed to be somewhat frustrating with distrust and paranoia sewn about.

I think the intention was people would need to break into areas to loot them but be discrete about it, with Sec being the challenge for them.

But most people don't seem to want the inconvenience of not having what they want, being careful when acquiring it, and having to hide it if they get it.

I've heard some stories from other servers where simply possessing a thing that you shouldn't counts as a crime. Things we take for granted as part of your average robustkit, like magboots or a hypospray. Vulpankin help you if you're carrying around an RCD and arent the CE.

It also helps that those things are pretty darn hard to get in general, and that Security can be pretty brutal to misbehavers. As an assistant, I can usually get everything I need by smashing a few windows and rubbing Harner up against some doors. Heck, there's a chemdispenser in the debris field just waiting for someone to blast a million units of godmode juice into an artbeaker and chug it the whole round.

I've never been stopped, even by department heads watching me mine my way into their place of business Dwarf Fortress style. I just *wave and *salute and they must assume I work there.

What I'm getting at is that we're too easy on fun. If you just let me fun around with your stuff, neither of us are gonna have much fun. Don't thank me for smashing your shit, piledrive my ass out into the hallway!

On other servers, simply being caught with traitor items is grounds for immediate execution. On TG, I remember getting arrested and having my ID confiscated as a roboticist because the other roboticist made a durand (combat mech).

[NateTheSquid]

yeah i've been executed for having a slipocalypse

[Technature]

^That really describes the problem.

People want or need things they can't get to, so they have to do things that are illegal to get them

Which is the point. The station is supposed to be somewhat frustrating with distrust and paranoia sewn about.

I think the intention was people would need to break into areas to loot them but be discrete about it, with Sec being the challenge for them.

But most people don't seem to want the inconvenience of not having what they want, being careful when acquiring it, and having to hide it if they get it.

I've heard some stories from other servers where simply possessing a thing that you shouldn't counts as a crime. Things we take for granted as part of your average robustkit, like magboots or a hypospray. Vulpankin help you if you're carrying around an RCD and arent the CE.

It also helps that those things are pretty darn hard to get in general, and that Security can be pretty brutal to misbehavers. As an assistant, I can usually get everything I need by smashing a few windows and rubbing Harner up against some doors. Heck, there's a chemdispenser in the debris field just waiting for someone to blast a million units of godmode juice into an artbeaker and chug it the whole round.

I've never been stopped, even by department heads watching me mine my way into their place of business Dwarf Fortress style. I just *wave and *salute and they must assume I work there.

What I'm getting at is that we're too easy on fun. If you just let me fun around with your stuff, neither of us are gonna have much fun. Don't thank me for smashing your shit, piledrive my ass out into the hallway!

Yeah, it's a matter of Security being a job that has existed prior to a culture shift towards a more permissive and cooperative station

I know I don't bother with arresting anyone for something like that unless I've been specifically asked to from someone from the raided department. Even then, I usually just ask them to leave or to return any stolen items so I can avoid having to make an arrest.

I think we really got to nail down exactly what security is supposed to be doing on their down time, and what kind of environment we want and would consider fun.

Any job I have, I try to make sure people not part of the job don't have an easy time of staying in (Other people that share my job, my boss, security, the HoP and the Captain are people I don't chase out.  People part of the same department (same job color) will get slack, but I'll try to keep them on their own job and start pushin people out if they're not takin the hint.).  It helps create conflict, and conflict is what makes the game fun after all.  Just yesterday, people kept breaking into mechanics for gloves, so I just grabbed them all and hid them on myself while telling security what they were doing.

If I'm security, I'll try to keep people out of the job areas they're not supposed to, escalating from warnings to tickets to stuns to brigging as it becomes a bigger problem.  People steal things, they lose them, and I try to get those items back to their places. Of course, when shit hits the fans, you stop caring if people are breaking into places cause it's significantly more likely they're just trying to find a way to defend themselves.  

I personally think Security should be doing things about keeping people in the areas they're supposed to be.  Wandering around public areas is one thing, but people breaking into Medical and swiping surgery tools never do it for benign reasons.

[atamusvaleo]

This is why I've been droning on about updating the in-game Space Law books. If an officer has this set of laws to go by it's still on them to enforce those laws but they'll have a reference point at least and can literally throw the book at criminals who want to argue that what they're doing isn't illegal.