[PR] No HoS whitelist requirement on Saturdays

[github_bot]

PULL REQUEST DETAILS




About the PR
On Saturday (UTC Time):

- Removes whitelist from HoS, NTSC, other whitelisted roles
- Grants Captain hos office access
- Removes HoS blanket armory access (must authorize armory)

On any other days:
- Business as usual, captain doesn't have access to armory/hos office, hos has armory access
- Raises rounds played req for Captain, HoS, NTSC to 50

On Saturdays only the Captain, Caps spare ID, and HoS have access to the hos office, this doesn't change ID computers or anything else so HoPs(or the captain) can't grant armory/hos office access.

This PR also changes the armory authorization to require hos office access, which means on Saturdays captain can auth without the disk, but is business as usual on anyotherday.

Why's this needed?
Some people have expressed that the HoS whitelist is outdated, I figure it's worth an experiment to see if the player base can handle it in a semi-controlled environment. Some reasoning (not that I agree or disagree personally) includes HoS having a level of meta trust due to being whitelisted which leads to HoS having defacto authority over even the Captain, whitelists being outdated, giving people a chance to prove themselves as HoS before applying for full time whitelisting, and more.

Testing
Tested IDs/access while changing build time to saturday, and non-saturday.


Changelog

Code:

changelog
(u)Sord
(*)On Saturday only: HoS and NTSC have no whitelist requirements. More details in minor changelogs
(*)HoS players are expected to still follow the HoS Guidelines(check the wiki). Captains should also review them if acting as Security in a round.
(*)Job bans will be handed out fast and loose for any HoS players, Captains, or NTSCs who abuse the roles and will not be removed if the TM is removed.
(+)HoS, NTSC, and any other whitelisted roles have no whitelist requirements to play
(+)Captain gains hos office access, HoS loses blanket armory access (must authorize armory)
(+)Armory authorization requires HoS office access, meaning Captain or HoS can auth with just their ID.
(+)Captain, HoS, and NTSC rounds required to play are now at 50 on all days

PULL REQUEST DETAILS

[Vulwin_Gilran]

I am a fan of this, I think it helps people if they have an app up and can be useful for people to decide if they would want to make an app for hos. The round requirement is also good, as it would prevent people who are intending to be malevolent from just jumping to the most visibly impactful role they can see.

Also its fun for people who want to run a security gimmick as HoS but dont want to have to make an app and then get it approved just for a one time bit.

[Kotlol]

I know why the white list exists but I do want the HoS/NTSC to be unlocked sometimes.

So I ain't 100% sure if this is a good idea. On one hand: It would mean saturday is security day. Wich is fine since it's peak days.
On the other... any joe schmoe with 50 rounds (wich is alot though) can do stupid stuff.
I think the Captain getting abit more security access is bad.... but that's me.

Overal while I want to play gimmick HoS stuff as well as be a HoS sometimes to help security. I am not 100% sure this is the best angle.
Anything HoS like I can do, I can do as a veteran detective/SO as well.

Most importantly it's about having fun.

[GARGATHUGANOKSREVENG]

saw the results of this pr today and it was fun I saw a hos and a ntsc on goon 1 and that never usually happens

[laugoose]

I got an HoS round in today, it was fun and showed me what the role would be like. It helped me get rid of this weird FOMO i had around the role for some reason. I trust everyone I know who has 50 rounds to be a good HoS, but maybe making there be a 1-5 round requirement on Security offier/assistant would be good. wouldn't want a 50 round scientist dipping his feet into security through HoS personally, but also if you don't want that to happen, you can always just not play on saturday.

[Silent Majority]

So observing, participating and engaging in several of the rounds my thoughts are as follows:

I think it was good for round and community health. I saw every round on every server have both an hos and captain. While sometimes peoplenare going to get the positions that don't know how/aren't ready for it, they get that for captain. And Chief engineer. And doctor or Ai.

I don't think HoS has any more potential for causing round issues then anyone else in command. And unless I missed stuff yesterday i think we saw rhat. I of course understand the reason for the white list originslly or even currently but, I also can say with personal experience I've played on numerous servers whete certain command roless have thr powerr to instantly end the round and never saw issues there either.

If a person's a shitter, they'll show they're a shitter long before 50 rounds.

[Torchwick]

I am optimistic about how this is going on day 1. The excitement is great to see and it’s fun to have people new in the role to grapple situations. I hope the once a week trial remains the new norm for a while; because so far I don’t think I’ve heard anything round-ruiningly bad come of it on day 1!

[James_TheSnail]

Personally, I dislike this change for several reasons, firstly I do not like the HoS losing armoury access without authing, it means if you want to go somewhere between authing for your entire team and just using standard gear, you've got a caps and seccies flooding into the armoury to loot gear, and then you also panic the crew and you can't reclose it for like 5 minutes.

Secondly, on classic with its lower population, you're going to have more sec with stronger equipment on Saturdays when everyone wants to be NTSC or HoS, so you can have like 5 sec, with the normal sec players being sec too, for like 2 antags, so it can feel bad to play antags for a specific day of the week, which I forsee just dropping pop on Saturdays because no one wants to deal with an army of secoffs, making Classic's pop struggles even worse.

Third, I personally feel like its more likely you'll get players who only want the extra gun or NSTC baton/gun who don't pay attention to the duties of an HoS as a teacher and someone to make sure sec is on the straight and narrow, at least more often than you're get a non-HoS player who wants to do a cool gimmick.


I have some more opinions about this change but I haven't figured out how to properly word those yet

I don't want to end on a totally negative note so I'll mention some of what I think this change is positive

Firstly, I don't actually mind Captain having access to the HoS' office, that makes sense to me as long as they are unable to open the HoS locker and loot it (I haven't seen if a captain can do this yet so I am not sure if they are able to open HoS lockers.)

Secondly, I can appreciate testing this to see how the community uses it and learning from the experience

Thirdly, I do like that some players who normally aren't able to play HoS could have a chance to run a cool gimmick with the role (even if I'm worried they may not be experienced enough properly handle such a high stress role and it could turn them away from the game.)

[joe joed]

I absolutely love this PR. My only problem with it is the HOS armory removal, where HOS' individual access is often the only half-measure of departmental escalation for security between no armory and full armory access. I do not think that the "we want to prevent them handing out weapons frivolously" argument applies, because they can do this by just slapping their ID on the armory sign. Infact, this change FORCES them to hand out weapons frivolously if they decide they need something specific, like the pod rocket launcher or flamethrowers. 

I do love seeing a wide variety of players in these roles, and I also like seeing players in these roles on goon 1. I do note that the increased amount of security total (because of the hype) on goon1 may change the dynamic and drive newer antags away from the game, but I believe this is a seperate problem entirely, and there are certain ways it could be fixed, like for example; more automatic ghost laterolls if either antags or security are reduced to ash. Obviously, this is out of scope, and is barely relevant to the forum post, but the main point atleast is that not all problems brought up by a given change are directly the fault of the change

[flyingcow01]

After observing and playing a few rounds yesterday I only have positive things to say about the change. I felt like new people trying the roles out brought a lot of fresh air into security and the rounds in general, especially with how every round i've seen had a different HoS with a different playstyle and ideas to run the department. The 50 round requirement feels fair as well.
Overall it's a nice way for people to try out the roles before applying and a great way to remove some of the meta trust that the whitelist created around the roles, which I feel can only be good for the game.

[Skotcher]

(I only play on RP, so this feedback is informed from what I've seen there.)

My immediate impression for the first day is that the PR is being treated well. I haven't seen any egregious behaviour, and people are taking the role seriously. I think, right now, this is a positive change.

My feedback, however, is that the two extra security role slots with strong gear can put quite a pinch on antags. These roles could already be filled, so my critique isn't leveled at the gear or the role, but rather at how this will impact the flow of a round and how antags will need to adjust their strategies. This may just be a thing that will balance out with time.

Something I think we may need to be more cautious of, from a server culture point, is vigilantism from non-security members on Saturdays.

[Kotlol]

If the devs are fine with it. We are all fine with it.

And it seems the experiment is a succes. So I see no reason to make it a full merge then.
I still have worries... but so far none of em reared their heads.

[Ikea]

My feedback, however, is that the two extra security role slots with strong gear can put quite a pinch on antags. These roles could already be filled, so my critique isn't leveled at the gear or the role, but rather at how this will impact the flow of a round and how antags will need to adjust their strategies. This may just be a thing that will balance out with time.

Honestly being able to have two security command roles when the pop is 15 always seemed silly to me and I would be down for a pop requirement to have NTSC's. The current pop scaling for security could be relooked at as well. Point being, this problem seems pretty fixable.