Remove Hygiene Motive from RP

[babayetu83]

if anything, make it so applying soap to your body slows if not halts the decay of hygiene. then perhaps if a series of events occurs that exceeds the amt of your hygiene motive, it can begin decaying again. it's the future

[Cal]

Also I think it's weird an electronic aura machine makes you not dirty

[JOELED]

It's not that it even makes you not dirty but it just stops you from getting more dirty which is weirder to me. Like if it was a magic shower machine that makes everyone clean in a radius I feel like that would make more sense than the hygiene decay removal thing it currently is

[444explorer]

Hygiene is like cyborg recharging if you took away the ways you have to get around having to run off somewhere and do nothing for a short while. Don't see why we shouldn't just throw it out, and if we don't? Then we definitely need to add more variety to how to deal with it. (sinks and their weird 'too dirty to clean your hands' thing doesn't count in my eyes)

[Kotlol]

Hygiene is like cyborg recharging if you took away the ways you have to get around having to run off somewhere and do nothing for a short while. Don't see why we shouldn't just throw it out, and if we don't? Then we definitely need to add more variety to how to deal with it. (sinks and their weird 'too dirty to clean your hands' thing doesn't count in my eyes)

This HAS to be the worst analogy.
Hygiene basically does nothing but "Shame your charater" and most people IGNORE IT!

While charging not only takes time, but is needed to stay the fuck alive as a borg.

Cleaning yourself in a shower takes 1-2 mins tops as long as you know where the shower is.
CHarging a borg takes 3-4 mins and cannot be ignored. And depending on use, will happen more often.
Hygiene can easily be dropped to 0 though but if that happens.. it's not the worst.


I think simply having body spray will help a lil.

[babayetu83]

Hygiene is like cyborg recharging if you took away the ways you have to get around having to run off somewhere and do nothing for a short while. Don't see why we shouldn't just throw it out, and if we don't? Then we definitely need to add more variety to how to deal with it. (sinks and their weird 'too dirty to clean your hands' thing doesn't count in my eyes)

the sink change was made because somebody didnt like people avoiding using showers

[kyle2143]

TBH the hygiene system always felt too basic to be fun. I mean it was added as a joke of course and people did expand on it to flesh it out a bit more. But the way it's handled never made much sense to me. (unless this has changed while I haven't been paying attention) You can get to 100% hygiene by washing your hands a lot by spam clicking a sink.

It would have to have "dirty" area groups and clothing/item hygiene values for that to make more sense. Like your hygiene should slowly decrease overall due to sweat and stuff, but certain activities should only affect certain areas: Eating would make your hands and mouth dirty, but if you wash your hands and mouth right after then it should put you back to 100%, otherwise you slowly spread that dirtiness to the rest of your body and other people you touch, like irl... Or doing surgery should just make your hands/shirt dirty. Washing your hands/gloves should fix that hygiene modifier.

but idk if that's worth it to anybody. Probably not.

[mintyphresh]

I don't think more complexity would solve the core issues of the mechanic, no

[glowbold]

Hygiene encourages people to become vulnerable and unable to immediately react to the radio. I think it allows for a lot more variance and texture in how the game progresses, and removing it entirely would make the game noticeably less interactive. Here's a summary of the coded mechanics and effects for Hygiene as I understand them: https://hackmd.io/@pgmzeta/H1mRDRU56

There's also a social element to it that I think should be more directly considered. I'm struggling to find a word for it, but I think there is a perceptive difference between an unwashed security team is arguing amongst themselves versus a washed one. I think it would be a shame for that distinction to never possibly happen; but I do agree that hygiene as-implemented needs some major adjustments.

I think clothing should better protect your hygiene from direct reagent contact, but blood-stained/oily/vomit-stained etc. clothing should be the source of consistent hygiene drain. Make it more about ensuring you don't stay dirty rather than about staying clean.

[444explorer]

(A lot, see above)

I have never seen this work well other than being silently Capulettium Stung in the showers, personally.

[JOELED]

There's also a social element to it that I think should be more directly considered. I'm struggling to find a word for it, but I think there is a perceptive difference between an unwashed security team is arguing amongst themselves versus a washed one. I think it would be a shame for that distinction to never possibly happen; but I do agree that hygiene as-implemented needs some major adjustments.

I don't have much to say on the rest of what's been said recently, but this point I disagree on.  I've been spending more time lately trying out various other ss13 servers to get more perspective on how mechanics (like motive systems) are implemented.  Whether a roleplay server or not, I've noticed no difference socially or perception wise between a group of people who are "rancid" with stinklines vs a group of people who are covered in blood and gore or vomit  --  both are considered as an Unwanted/Unpleasant State and one that needs to be rectified as soon as the situation is less immediately busy, but only one of them fills the chat with irritating smell-related fluff messages.  That distinction still occurs without a hygiene system

[Kotlol]

Basically if someone farted too much in one room it will smell.
Also bad smelling things will make those comments too like vormit, blood, miasma and such.

If anything you can ignore hygiene 100% with everyone and no one will bat an eye at it ever.
While if you leave spills everywhere, people will slip and get hurt.
Where as if everyone is stinky, you just get annoying lines and messages but no one will bat an eye... unless you are covered in blood.

I only take showers as a charater if I feel like they would.. but if they are a clown, a work a holic or someone who doesn't care... I will be stinking constantly.

In some cases the stink is even part of the RP, for example being "Stinky pete"

The problem with hygiene it's "annoying at best" and if the stink messeges annoy the crap out of you... you will have to deal with them regardless since some departments will stink.. especially those who had a lot of dead bodies lately, regardless of everyone have 100% hygiene.

This is why we need "air freshner" items. Since if your concern is the "This place stinks" message is the worst one... removing hygiene will not remove it. As it's mostly caused by vormit and dead bodies giving off miasma.

Low Hygiene should just give you a debuff like: "randomly being slown down" like you are recovering from an addiction would infact make people take a shower.

[glowbold]

(A lot, see above)

I have never seen this work well other than being silently Capulettium Stung in the showers, personally.

I am referring to the response time of someone showering/cleaning being delayed as they pick their stuff up when they get a radio call / sec alert, not attacking in the showers.

[mintyphresh]

Assuming it's a radio call, that's like a (being generous) 5-second difference in response time, and the likelihood of an alert on either method happening in the 10 seconds of nudity (again being generous) it takes to take a shower is 20/5700 (assuming two 10-second showers per shift, equal likelihood of an alert at any time in the shift). That's about 0.34%. The only time it makes a significant difference is if the alert comes in through PDA, but even then you usually have some radio indication, usually from teammates on the force or concerned crew. Not to mention that this concern only applies to Sec, which makes up 10-20% of the crew.

That's hardly enough of a mechanical impact to justify the issues hygiene has in executing its ideas.