[CLOSED PR] Adjusts Wraith Chance On Traitor

[github_bot]

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[BALANCE] [GAMEMODES] [INPUT WANTED]

About the PR
Increases the chance for a wraith to spawn on the traitor gamemode to 15% (was 10%), but also increases the minimum number of traitors needed for the chance to occur (minimum of 4 traitors, up from 3).


Why's this needed?
This makes the chance on par with the vampire and arcfiend gamemodes (not accounting for pop divisor), while also increasing the minimum amount of players needed to spawn a wraith. currently, there's a 10% chance of a wraith replacing one of traitors if at least 14 (23 on rp) players readied up, assuming the calc for traitors rolls it's maximum (7), which is WAY too low of a pop count for wraith. Now the minimum will be 21 (33 on rp). If this is still too low, let me know so I can increase it.


Changelog

Code:

changelog
(u)Wisemonster
(+)The chance for a wraith to spawn on the traitor gamemode has been increased to 15% (up from 10%)
(+)The minimum number of traitors needed for a wraith to replace a traitor in the traitor gamemode has been increased to 4 (up from 3)

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[RelentlessGarbage]

Seeing as one of the main complaints about wraiths (besides plague wraiths) is that it's rare to be able to play as one, I think this is a good change. It also prevents wraiths from spawning on lower-population rounds, where it's harder for wraiths to do anything (due to there being fewer corpses). All in all, seems sensible.

[Cal]

I personally REALLY do not want Wraith to be more common. They are absolute destruction with no repercussions except to people who know how to counter them.

You can punch a guy attacking you with a knife, you can't punch a ghost.

[RelentlessGarbage]

I personally REALLY do not want Wraith to be more common. They are absolute destruction with no repercussions except to people who know how to counter them.

You can punch a guy attacking you with a knife, you can't punch a ghost.

Y'all cowards don't even use salt.

To your point, though, Wraith is the type of antagonist that is very unlikely to be consciously dealt with by most people during a particular round, even if their presence is being screamed over the radio, up until the station is full of plague rats and almost everyone is dead. There are definitely means for counterplay, though, such as by using strange green goop and spirit candles to force-manifest a wraith and beat it up. But that requires knowledge that most people don't have.

Perhaps we can use this opportunity to look at Wraith's balance and see what changes should be made, potentially through the addition of more effective counterplay options. The only one that's coming to mind for me is to nerf the Plague Wraith in a serious way - anyone that plays wraith is effectively penalized for choosing the other paths because of how strong plague wraiths get.

[Kotlol]

I like wraiths, they bring a fun flair to the game.

My problem with their counterplays that it is WIKI ONLY and no WHERE in game.

Even Vampires and Wizards have the chaplain to deal with.. but the wraith is suppose to be dealt with a chaplain as well.
Problem is... the chaplain has to make stuff to deal with it... wich can be made by anyone.

Salt circles and spirit candles are knowledge you need to learn to deal with wraiths and these guys can go anywhere any time. Salt just hinders them.
And the spirit candle is an one time use wich again.. has to be used near the wraith... but the wraith can EASILY run away from it as it's a spirit.
The last thing to use is the Ecto goggles and Ecto Blaster found in the void.

So most of their counter play is slowly obtained and set up and can be mostly easily avoided... but.. the wraith needs to absorb dead players and monkeys to even start doing REAL CHAOS!

So the slow counterplay is because of the slow start of a wraith.. when a wraith is noticed for the 1st time... they still got time.

At the moment I find wraiths just fine.. they are "supportive" antags or "feed of chaos" antags. And their rarity is 100% okay.
Changing how to counterplay em is gonna suck.

BUT... it would be nice that information is easier to obtain.

So this PR I am 100% against.

[Silent Majority]

Make it so wraiths can't walk through walls when manifested and sure. Otherwise i would rather not have more

[RelentlessGarbage]

Make it so wraiths can't walk through walls when manifested and sure. Otherwise i would rather not have more

This^

[Wisemonster]

Turns out, wraiths being able to go through windows is a bug, that was previously fixed, but somehow, it returned.

[CalliopeSoups]

Agreed that the window bug has made wraiths much more troublesome recently (particularly trickster).

I used to really want a higher wraith chance but I think until some measures are taken to make countering them wider knowledge it would be impossible. I also feel like even though wraith itself is extremely fun on RP and has high potential especially as a trickster, the one antag that comes with the wraith can tend to be very forwardly blown off by sec and crew for the bigger threat. Currently wondering whether making wraith on RP a single antag thing would be a good call, or give the antag that spawns with a wraith some way to know there is one, so they can play more accordingly.

[TDHooligan]

personally happy with the minpop change as wraith's bad-ness is exponential with how low pop is, admittedly just not a big fan of wraith though so i can't comment on the frequency increase.

[Kotlol]

Agreed that the window bug has made wraiths much more troublesome recently (particularly trickster).

I used to really want a higher wraith chance but I think until some measures are taken to make countering them wider knowledge it would be impossible. I also feel like even though wraith itself is extremely fun on RP and has high potential especially as a trickster, the one antag that comes with the wraith can tend to be very forwardly blown off by sec and crew for the bigger threat. Currently wondering whether making wraith on RP a single antag thing would be a good call, or give the antag that spawns with a wraith some way to know there is one, so they can play more accordingly.

I can assure you, single antag wraith is BOOOOORING.
The wraith has to kill monkey's SOMEHOW without people shutting them down with SALT.

While some wraiths use fun methodes to get players to RP monkey murdering. Relying only on players killing monkeys is not always the best.

In my opinion... the only way to make wraith work as a single antag is to have a living body they can go in and out of before becoming a "Class" that they have to protect before becoming a Trickster, Plague or such. OOORRR....
Have a living antagonist buddy as you recommend, but insted of it being a traitor who knows.
Have it be like "Spirit Confidant"

They can see the wraith perfectly and need to sacrifice monkeys and players to the wraith. The wraith can freely talk to them without a cooldown or points and their goals are the same. If the Spirit Confidant dies, it will automaticly become a wraith minion. (Depending on the level of wraith of course) Or just a normal Poltergeist.
Also the spirit confidant can also commit ceremonial suicide to give the wraith extra points and join them as a concept.

At this point I have no problem with the wraith being a solo antag in RP or an extra antag in classic.
But normally RP has atleast 2-3 antags per round, unless it's low pop then it's one.
But having 1 wraith and 1 confidant + 1 possible spy/thief on higher pop? Just fine with me.

I stil think there just needs to be more direct ways to fight a wraith to increase its spawn rate in general.
From all the antagonists that can spawn... WRAITH IS LITTERLY THE ONLY ONE EVERYONE NEEDS TO DO SPECIFIC THINGS TO EVEN START DAMAGING IT!

Blobs, arcfiends, vampires,werewolves,changelings,wizards,flock,nukies,conspirators,revolutionaries,gangs. All of them can die to just bringing a Tool Box and swinging it at them and being robust.

Wraiths? You can only robust em if you get em to materlize... wich means you need salt... from Science or Bartender.. Or a spirit candles, wich requires a skull + candle.
So you need a skull from a monkey and a candle, then light it and hope it doesnt go out or else it's wasted.

In my opinion... there needs to be a way to "Summon a wraith" to your location using the Ouija board. But by doing so you give it power... so it has a chance to fight back. Of course if we add the wraith confidant in, they cannot use the ouija board at all. If they try it will give consiquences to them.

Anyhow.... that's my suggestions.

For single wraiths.. give them an assistant to work with or else most of the shift the wraith will be waiting for dead monkeys.
For increased spawns... give a way to fight the wraith directly.. like summoning them with a oujia board.