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+--- Thread: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires (/showthread.php?tid=758)
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Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - Dachshundofdoom - 04-01-2013
Vampires have the hardest early game as compared to every other antagonist. Vampires have no offensive abilities to start with, get murdered if they ever go into space, can't aim punches for the head, and their shapeshift ability has a cost and can be ferreted out in seconds via the crew manifest, whereas a changeling right off the bat pretty much can't lose a one-on-one fight, has space available as a hiding place, and can turn into any victim for free and the AI won't be any the wiser. By the endgame the vamp is a lot more threatening, but still can't kill as many people as a changeling because all his awesome abilities either cost tons of blood or charge painfully slowly.
But most of all, it's the lack of a stun ability or way to stop people from screaming your name if you get unlucky and the fire extinguisher doesn't one-shot them into unconsciousness. Right now you have to risk basic combat (which gets you less blood), wait for a braindead, or beg a monkeyhuman off genetics and pray they don't rat you out later. I'd like to propose two changes for the vampire:
1. Stun people being bitten. The stun only lasts while you're being drained, if the vamp moves or you get moved and you're still conscious, you can run or fight immediately. (This may already be a thing? Been a while since I was a vamp)
2. Add a "bite strength" toggle to the vampire's abilities, between weak and strong bites. Weak bites would work exactly as they do now, with brute damage over time for blood. Strong bites will cause suffocation as his bite closes off their windpipe AND brute for the blood drain, but will reduce the amount of blood he gets because they will die faster from a combination of suffocation and brute, and he only gets blood from the brute damage. The advantage is that a strong bite will paralyze them and prevent them from crying out, even though they are conscious.
I suppose that it should also be that a vampire currently biting someone can't change the bite strength, to prevent people from strong biting until they can pull off the headset and then switching to weak, at least not without the risk of the victim running away or getting in one last punch (unless they're already in crit, at which point you're not getting much more out of them anyway). Think of weak bites as being fangs in a jugular, strong bites as being the entire mouth clamped around the neck, with no way to change them without first releasing his grip.
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - mozi - 04-01-2013
I like idea #1 a lot.
I've heard that blood code is getting reworked so hopefully that will give folks a fixed amount of blood regardless of health, getting rid of victims who succumb to deny you their blood and boring vampires who just hook up a victim to a bunch of medibots to farm an infinite supply of blood.
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - BlackPhoenix - 04-01-2013
mozi Wrote:I like idea #1 a lot.Victims can't succumb while being drained anymore.
I've heard that blood code is getting reworked so hopefully that will give folks a fixed amount of blood regardless of health, getting rid of victims who succumb to deny you their blood and boring vampires who just hook up a victim to a bunch of medibots to farm an infinite supply of blood.
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - UrsulaMejor - 04-01-2013
BlackPhoenix Wrote:mozi Wrote:I like idea #1 a lot.Victims can't succumb while being drained anymore.
I've heard that blood code is getting reworked so hopefully that will give folks a fixed amount of blood regardless of health, getting rid of victims who succumb to deny you their blood and boring vampires who just hook up a victim to a bunch of medibots to farm an infinite supply of blood.
Since when? I did it last week
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - BlackPhoenix - 04-01-2013
UrsulaMejor Wrote:Since quite a while ago when somebody suggested it. It says "A mysterious force doesn't allow you to succumb" or something. I've tried within the last month to succumb while the vampire was draining me, forgetting about it, and was not able.BlackPhoenix Wrote:mozi Wrote:I like idea #1 a lot.Victims can't succumb while being drained anymore.
I've heard that blood code is getting reworked so hopefully that will give folks a fixed amount of blood regardless of health, getting rid of victims who succumb to deny you their blood and boring vampires who just hook up a victim to a bunch of medibots to farm an infinite supply of blood.
Since when? I did it last week
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - Cogwerks - 04-01-2013
Some jerk admin might have toggled the Suicides Off button.
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - BlackPhoenix - 04-01-2013
No, I am pretty sure it was made that you can't succumb or suicide while being drained, since it's super unfair to the vampire. I would link the thread if I could find it.
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - I-Sett - 04-01-2013
I agree, I think idea #1 is fantastic for Baby-Vamps. Though I do enjoy the challenge of finding creative ways to silence a victim (those medbay gags were great, are those still in?). I think the best improvement to vampires will be that blood limit change when it's implemented. The medibot hack is way, way overused. The monkey -> human thing is also pretty damn cheap but at least that requires genetics access.
I'm still hoping for a Vampire mode to appear to make it more likely to play as one, but my topic on the subject got buried off in Idea Limbo after it was up for an hour
.
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - UrsulaMejor - 04-01-2013
BlackPhoenix Wrote:No, I am pretty sure it was made that you can't succumb or suicide while being drained, since it's super unfair to the vampire. I would link the thread if I could find it.
He probably hit you with hypnotic stare
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - BlackPhoenix - 04-01-2013
No, I'm positive it was changed. Can one of the coders let them know I'm not crazy?
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - Dachshundofdoom - 04-01-2013
BlackPhoenix Wrote:No, I'm positive it was changed. Can one of the coders let them know I'm not crazy?
You can't succumb or suicide while being bitten, I will vouch for this. I'm 100% certain about suicide, 99% about the succumb.
And vampire should really get added to the secret rotation if it gets a stunning bite, that would make it a more workable antagonist (even if you still have to find a way to stop them from screaming your name). Maybe if vampires were made immune to having to breathe and to all breathing hazards (they ARE undead) so you could try to vent a room to space or have !fun! with all the poisonous gases you can find around the station? I really don't know, I just want vampires to have a slightly easier time one-on-one, they're already as slow as a ling if not slower.
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - Admiral jimbob - 04-01-2013
BlackPhoenix Wrote:No, I'm positive it was changed. Can one of the coders let them know I'm not crazy?I can vouch for this as well, I tried doing it the other day - it was after the round ended, and I was curious to see if it still worked - and the mysterious force stopped me too.
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - mozi - 04-01-2013
Dachshundofdoom Wrote:Maybe if vampires were made immune to having to breathe and to all breathing hazards (they ARE undead) so you could try to vent a room to space or have !fun! with all the poisonous gases you can find around the station?
a little bit related-- vampires are allegedly immune to disease (well someone put that on the wiki awhile back so I assume it's so). a nice bonus would be immunity to chemicals aside from holy water. while changelings use atmos fuckery to their advantage vampires could spray poison everywhere to help them out. it would also be really nice since it would give the vampire a chance to survive against a changeling, who they seem to bump into far too often
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - APARTHEID - 04-01-2013
mozi Wrote:Dachshundofdoom Wrote:Maybe if vampires were made immune to having to breathe and to all breathing hazards (they ARE undead) so you could try to vent a room to space or have !fun! with all the poisonous gases you can find around the station?
a little bit related-- vampires are allegedly immune to disease (well someone put that on the wiki awhile back so I assume it's so). a nice bonus would be immunity to chemicals aside from holy water. while changelings use atmos fuckery to their advantage vampires could spray poison everywhere to help them out. it would also be really nice since it would give the vampire a chance to survive against a changeling, who they seem to bump into far too often
Fire burns, acid dissolves, but frankly, in regards to every other chemical, this is fair and good game.
We have so many chemicals to screw around with now that a chem-free traitor might be a hell of a thing.
Re: Making the Early Game Easier for Vampires - Embolism - 04-02-2013
If it includes immunity to beneficial chemicals too then sure. Otherwise being able to spam deadly chemical smoke on the go might be too much?