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+--- Thread: The ChemiSeparator (/showthread.php?tid=7298)
Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - TheOnlyRyan - 01-07-2016
I heard someone already mentioned this on the forum but I couldn't find the thread so I'm assuming it was just a post, not a thread or genuine suggestion.
AnyWHO.. I'm not the best chemist, in fact I'm pretty awful. This doesn't stop me from trying my best however and from trying my best I've noticed one thing that kinda annoys me, or at least something that stops me from working to my full potential.
This is, that we lack a machine or tool for splitting 2 chemicals apart into separate beakers or containers from 1 container.
I was making something very secret the other day which involves 1 chemical which only 1 unit is needed and 1 chemical which 5 or 10 is needed.
I ended up adding way too much of the first one but had already mixed so much of the precious chemical that I couldn't just start over, I had to use it diluted with the other chemical.
How is it we have machines that allow us to remove and isolate specific chemicals from a mixed beaker, but not save the chemical that's removed?
Chemistry (in my opinion) is already a little too un-user friendly with the amount of secrets and complexities of all of it, I think the job would benefit from a machine capable of taking specific chemicals from 1 beaker and transferring it to another.
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - medsal15 - 01-07-2016
This is gonna be a very useful machine.
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - Houka - 01-07-2016
This machine exists IRL. It's called a centrifuge. Please make this a thing, admin folks.
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - ZeWaka - 01-07-2016
So, I talked to another guy on IRC about this and I thought it was really neat and needed idea so I made a sprite for it.
Operating Normally
Emagged
There are also idle states, I just forgot to put them in the clips.
DMI File
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - Nnystyxx - 01-07-2016
I support this idea thoroughly. The complexity of chemistry should be in accessibility of chemicals and learning the recipes (and how to make them efficiently), it shouldn't be the mechanics themselves being overly rigid.
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - Dieting Hippo - 01-07-2016
i'm the irc guy! i started working on a centrifuge recently to get familiar with BYOND coding. zewaka, thank you for making some sweet sprites and animations for it. once i finish it i'll post the final specs, but for now here's my tentative stats:
- beaker/bottle of reagents must be inserted.
- select which reagent/s you want separated out of beaker into the 4-8 containers which will have a small storage capacity (20-100ml).
- when ran, spinning reagents are forced through a nano-filter that separates the specified reagents into containers.
- the faster the RPM, the faster the separation. default RPM is 3500, max RPM is 14000. at default, reagents will be filtered at 1 unit/sec split between the number of reagents selected. double the RPM, double the speed.
- after reagents are separated, insert a new beaker and dump one of the centrifuge containers to retrieve the separated reagent.
- the centrifuge will start wobbling at high RPM, and may (will) spill reagents (napalm) all over the floor nearby. using a screwdriver to anchor it will raise the needed amount of RPM for wobbling to occur.
- also working on how to apply a "force" to the reagents. i may go with heat applied to reagents as RPM increases. that means reagents that are volatile cannot spin at a high RPM or violent reactions and explosions will occur.
- emagging a centrifuge will double the RPM and will look like it has no power when idle.
it's a powerful chemistry mechanic balanced by not being an instant function like CheMaster3000's (Isolate). there's enough variables to speed up the process and fuck up in hilarious ways.
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - Marquesas - 01-08-2016
While this is rather convenient and all, I would vouch against it, precisely due to CheMaster's 'isolate' feature. Life isn't fair, chemistry is powerful and you only have yourself to blame if you need to get rid of one of two very powerful stuff.
Also, I'd like to see you centrifuge something like nitroglycerine or NI3. If we're working with IRL analogues, centrifuging has a set of requirements, it's not a one shot solve-it-all.
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - APARTHEID - 01-08-2016
Marquesas Wrote:Also, I'd like to see you centrifuge something like nitroglycerine or NI3. If we're working with IRL analogues, centrifuging has a set of requirements, it's not a one shot solve-it-all.
You might be missing the greater good of such a machine. We already have the dangers of mixing without protection with fumes, why not include the dangers of trying to put napalm (or goddamn, ClF3) through a nanofilter? Sure, you could try to separate it out, but don't be surprised if the centrifuge starts belching fire every which way.
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - APARTHEID - 01-08-2016
To be fair, if anything, this machine would probably see only niche use due to the fact that you'd be using it to filter out things from the randomly-generated hobo wines and designer drugs around the station.
You can assume that anyone using one of these things is definitely up to no good.
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - Dieting Hippo - 01-08-2016
Marquesas Wrote:While this is rather convenient and all, I would vouch against it, precisely due to CheMaster's 'isolate' feature. Life isn't fair, chemistry is powerful and you only have yourself to blame if you need to get rid of one of two very powerful stuff.
Also, I'd like to see you centrifuge something like nitroglycerine or NI3. If we're working with IRL analogues, centrifuging has a set of requirements, it's not a one shot solve-it-all.
on the CheMaster Isolate, it has a nice balance in that you only get one reagent from the source, but the function is instant. with an rpm-controlled centrifuge, it would take 50 seconds by default to filter a whole 50 unit beaker. that is a long time if there's a traitor/wizard lurking around. the fastest separation without emagging would be a beaker in 12.5 seconds at 14000 rpm, but at that speed you're most likely going to destroy/explode/spill any reagent in the beaker.
in magic space land there's a few objects that don't work exactly like their real world analogues, like being able to isolate jenkem from a container of LSD, crank, mercury, and saltpetre. i brainstormed actually having the beaker separate into layers then extracting each layer individually to containers, but that felt more complex than it should be. same thing with weight instability, a real issue with centrifugues. instead of needing to keep the exact amount of reagent in each container, it is substituted with general instability at high RPM.
as far as centrifuging nitro and other unstables, they may explode at default/any speed. experiment with what explodes when, thats science!
disclaimer: i started on this after playing botanist and growing weed but being disappointed that i couldnt separate the THC and LSD, resulting in wasted drugs from isolating. sometimes the use isn't malicious, it's just a dude wanting to get high as balls.
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - Dieting Hippo - 01-08-2016
APARTHEID Wrote:Marquesas Wrote:Also, I'd like to see you centrifuge something like nitroglycerine or NI3. If we're working with IRL analogues, centrifuging has a set of requirements, it's not a one shot solve-it-all.
You might be missing the greater good of such a machine. We already have the dangers of mixing without protection with fumes, why not include the dangers of trying to put napalm (or goddamn, ClF3) through a nanofilter? Sure, you could try to separate it out, but don't be surprised if the centrifuge starts belching fire every which way.
hell, i'm picturing a beaker with 5 reagents in it, and the only reagent centrifuged out of it was a stabilizer that kept the solution from turning into hellfire. that would be a great learning experience!
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - TheOnlyRyan - 01-08-2016
Marquesas Wrote:While this is rather convenient and all, I would vouch against it, precisely due to CheMaster's 'isolate' feature. Life isn't fair, chemistry is powerful and you only have yourself to blame if you need to get rid of one of two very powerful stuff.
Also, I'd like to see you centrifuge something like nitroglycerine or NI3. If we're working with IRL analogues, centrifuging has a set of requirements, it's not a one shot solve-it-all.
I agree Chemsitry is already powerful enough, but with that power comes a lot of practice and far more hours of testing out things (and not having a round where a mad man runs in to murder you) then some people have for Spacestation.
Maybe this is one small reason the population is so low nowadays, who knows.
All I know is making a machine that can make a chemists life, fully elite 100% secrets MLG robust or brand new to the station and maybe to spacestation completely, a little easier and the learning curve a little more smooth is a good idea in my eyes.
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - TheOnlyRyan - 01-08-2016
Super amazing chemists will simply not fuck up, it wont be making chemistry more OP at all.
It will just help training chemists to not make so many mistakes, as they can easily learn and improve the next time.
They won't just ruin their entire beaker and say screw it, press the red X and go braindead.
Boy I wish we could edit posts :l
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - atomic1fire - 01-09-2016
Dieting Hippo Wrote:Here's a compromise I doubt people will like.APARTHEID Wrote:Marquesas Wrote:Also, I'd like to see you centrifuge something like nitroglycerine or NI3. If we're working with IRL analogues, centrifuging has a set of requirements, it's not a one shot solve-it-all.
You might be missing the greater good of such a machine. We already have the dangers of mixing without protection with fumes, why not include the dangers of trying to put napalm (or goddamn, ClF3) through a nanofilter? Sure, you could try to separate it out, but don't be surprised if the centrifuge starts belching fire every which way.
hell, i'm picturing a beaker with 5 reagents in it, and the only reagent centrifuged out of it was a stabilizer that kept the solution from turning into hellfire. that would be a great learning experience!
Lets put the swirly whirly machine o fun in the biodome where only the bravest of scientists will actually use it. Not every device in telescience zlevels has to be "broken computer" and not every useful device has to be on the station, the crew can use somehow pristine equipment in the middle of a biohazard zone can't they? Biodome is not even that hard with guns, and I want to hear stories about how someone wanted to mass produce meth but got ate by a zombie because they weren't prepared enough.
I feel like "lets put the machine where only some really smart nerds will reach it" satisfies the "it makes chemistry too easy" problem, while still encouraging scientists to do their jobs.
Re: Chemical splitting/transfering machine? - TheOnlyRyan - 01-09-2016
I still don't get why It's not already a basic machine.
Isolating is already a thing, adding a Split/Transfer option or machine won't at all make the job more "op"
It will just make it more user friendly.