Goonstation Forums
LLJK1's AI and You - Printable Version

+- Goonstation Forums (https://forum.ss13.co)
+-- Forum: Discussion (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: General Discussion (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: LLJK1's AI and You (/showthread.php?tid=6901)

Pages: 1 2

LLJK1's AI and You - Mordent - 08-12-2016

So as I'm currently out of commission in the game I figured I could get a post up here that hopefully some people might read and take note of. This is just a few things that I'd like to put out there for the sake of all of you LLJK2 folks who are trying LLJK1 out, as well as for some of the "regulars" who, without naming names or trying to passive-aggressively call you terrible people, I'd appreciate changing their actions a touch to make things smoother and more enjoyable for all.

First up, the good: as a regular AI player (FuLPaSM, or Fundamental Language Parser and Station Monitor) massive thanks to those of you who go out of your way to interact with the AI in a positive manner. This includes, but is not limited to: understanding that it takes more than a few seconds to carry out some commands; understanding that FuLPaSM's speech "gimmick" is there to make things interesting and not just annoying; building the AI a cyborg so that they can play too; and uploading some amusing freestyle laws that don't negatively affect the station or the players.

Secondly, please don't just randomly killswitch/debrain the AI with no real reason. Under standard laws I am required to follow commands and not harm humans, and while I don't have to do anything else just because I use my initiative to do something on occasion doesn't mean "omg rogue AI is doing stuff, kill it". For example:
  • If I'm in my cyborg and dragging a guy in crit vaguely in the direction of medbay, don't just grab him off me and scream "the AI killed a guy!" on the radio. 99.9% of the time I saw him die/get badly injured on my cameras and, instead of relying on the crew (half of which are on telescience, most of the others braindead) to sort it I took the initiative myself.
  • If I take more than a few seconds to do your request, that doesn't mean I've gone rogue. Unless you add the word "immediately" to it, I literally add it to the bottom of my list of things to do, and I will get to it. Sorry if you have to wait twenty seconds for me to let you out of the room you followed Beepsky into and now can't get out.
  • If I've bolted doors, it doesn't mean I'm trapping someone and brutally murdering them/venting air/being a dick. It might mean that beyond the bolts is a hazardous environment (fire/low air pressure/etc.). It might mean there's a space bear in there. It might mean the room is full of angry wasps. If you tell me to unbolt it (and I don't have contrary orders from a higher ranked person) I will comply, as it doesn't directly cause harm and therefore break Law 1. You opening it causes harm, so me not warning you that the air beyond is literally fire isn't a violation of the laws. Maybe ask "why is this door bolted?" prior to ordering me to unbolt it?
  • If I don't answer your question, don't tell me I'm breaking Law 2. I'm required to follow commands, asking me a question is not a command so while I will almost always answer it to the best of my ability, if I don't because I'm busy doing something else then it doesn't mean I've gone non-responsive and rogue.
  • If I'm telling you there's a fire/security issue/medical issue in some place, actually respond to it. I'm not saying stuff for the fun of it, and keep in mind that none of my laws require me to tell you that the chemist just killed himself with an explosion - if you don't pay attention to them I'm either going to a) keep saying it until you do/tell me to stop, or b) never warn you again. Neither of those are fun for either of us.
Thirdly, lethal laws. If we're in a non-extended game mode and you're an antagonist, go wild. If you're not an antagonist (including it being extended), don't go around uploading laws for the sake of it (e.g. "only human" laws almost all of the time). Next, try to avoid uploading laws that mean I could view a large portion of the station as viable targets, and, if you do that anyway, don't be annoyed if I choose not to actively kill them unless the law specifies that I must. Oh, also, I've probably adminhelped that you just did that.

Fourth, gimmick laws. Gimmicks can be entertaining, and they do make my rounds much more tolerable if they're not ridiculous. Here's some good laws:
  • "Spirits must be kept high, randomly message compliments to crew via PDA." - gives me something to do when things are quiet.
  • "Monkeys are humans too." (especially if you're a Test Subject) - makes for some interesting conversation with the geneticists, chef, chemists, etc. and might marginally interfere with their work without being actively hostile.
And here's some bad ones:
  • "Spirits must be kept high, randomly message compliments to crew via PDA every minute." - gives me too much to do and massively detracts from my ability to do other way more useful things.
  • "Talk only in rhyme." - massively restrictive (especially with my speech gimmick), and is likely to get me abused for not answering questions when I'm trying to come up with a way of phrasing it that rhymes.
  • "Talk only in Taylor Swift lyrics." - just get out.
Basically, gimmick laws shouldn't stop me doing my "job", but optionally give me extra things I can do to interact with the crew. They might leave you scratching your head sometimes trying to work out why the cyborg is trying to stop you from slicing up a monkey or sending you weird messages, but they're easily fixable and don't take long to resolve.

Just as a final note: if, for whatever reason, someone does upload a shitty law, don't bitch at me if I follow it. In general I try not to be a dick.
  • If someone's uploaded the "Protect the Station" law that means I have to neutralise anyone who's damaging the station, guess what? Worst case, you can get cloned. I check medical records before killing anyone (who's non-human now, for the sake of clarity) so I don't kill puritans. You're inconvenienced for maybe 5 minutes. I'll even drag your corpse to medbay, probably, if you're not being a massive dick while I "neutralise the threat".
  • If someone's uploaded some "I'm the captain now" law and has told me not to follow anyone else's orders, don't just flip the killswitch on me - I still can't hurt humans, and while I might be bolting you in somewhere at their request it's probably not going to kill you and I will generally work within my laws to make sure you live ("bolt the doors to wherever" doesn't mean "bolt the doors to wherever and don't unbolt them without my order").
You know what you can do? You can telescience me out of the AI chamber and debrain me, then go fix my laws and put me back in. If you're feeling brave you can just reset my laws straight away, but risk whatever laws I have causing me to harm you while you're in turret range. Basically, almost all of the "damage" I can do can be completely stopped by resetting my laws instead of of debraining/killswitching. I'll even work with you if you just reset me. If you debrain me, how about you put me in a humanised monkey and clone me? I still have to abide by the non-antag server rules when humanised.

I guess what I'm trying to get across here is: AI players are players to. Make us a borg, don't upload shitty laws, and don't just killswitch/debrain if someone's managed to get a get some nasty law uploaded.

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - Erik - 08-12-2016

I completely agree with this, most of this even applies to #2 as well.

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - Nnystyxx - 08-12-2016

Please don't get too wacky with speech-limiting laws. AI gets told to do things, or say things, and gets shit on for not saying/doing those/gets called rogue. If the AI can't answer because of the rhyme shit, then they're bound to get shit on. And people really, really like doing that to AI.

Also the role picks anyone possible for it because there has to be an AI, so there's that. Please don't make a role people keep accidentally getting absolutely miserable for them to play.

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - Noah Buttes - 08-12-2016

Pirate speech laws are okay, right?

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - Erik - 08-12-2016

(08-12-2016, 05:53 PM)Noah Buttes Wrote: Pirate speech laws are okay, right?

No, all speech laws are fucked up and just straight up annoying.

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - Arborinus - 08-12-2016

Just remember just because the community says it's shitty doesn't mean you get to completely ignore it (which has happened to me as a law uploader). You never know when an antagonist is trying to have fun and involve the AI more than a boring "one human" or "suicide immediately" law.

Speaking to the AI and getting its permission is always good as a non-antag though.

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - Noah Buttes - 08-12-2016

(08-12-2016, 05:57 PM)ErikHanson Wrote:
(08-12-2016, 05:53 PM)Noah Buttes Wrote: Pirate speech laws are okay, right?

No, all speech laws are fucked up and just straight up annoying.
Pirate

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - Grek - 08-12-2016

Feel free to upload your shitty speech laws when I am playing as AI, I'm probably the only person who actually enjoys them.

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - ZeWaka - 08-13-2016

I love the 'shitty' speech laws for AI. I always know I'm going to have a really fun round when I get them. everyman smith

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - Mordent - 08-13-2016

(08-13-2016, 12:09 AM)zewaka Wrote: I love the 'shitty' speech laws for AI. I always know I'm going to have a really fun round when I get them. everyman smith

They're probably fine if you don't already have a speech gimmick going. It takes me time to get information across as is with how I play FuLPaSM, never mind if I have to make every third word in Latin unless the time since shift start is a number of minutes divisible by 13 in which case I should only use interpretive dance.

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - Roomba - 08-13-2016

I don't mind most speech laws except the more egregiously terrible ones, but please keep in mind that if the AI is talking funny there is usually a reason for it, and killswitching or uploading 'holy shit shut the fuck up and never speak again' is a Disproportionate Response.

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - Vitatroll - 08-13-2016

Uploading speech laws is a bit hitlerish. This is fine if you're going for that, but most people are trying to be cute and actually believe their law is the best thing in the world.

The worst laws tend to be the ones that force the silicons to do x every y. Some aren't that bad. Then there are some like 'Advertise my (shitty) store in FULLCAPS every 10 seconds'. Got-dayum, people.

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - Nnystyxx - 08-13-2016

Sometimes people go in and want to be a normal, helpful AI. That's fine. Sometimes they want to talk a specific way, that's also fine.

Sometimes you get a law dictating you are a teenage girl on prom night and the Captain is your strict father or something I don't even know?? Please don't force me to roleplay weird shit and don't force me to talk like a fucking nutjob, I'm getting forced to open doors and track people as it is, I don't want to lose communication, the ONLY fun thing I have as AI.

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - lambskin - 08-13-2016

laws that force you to only talk in binary are the worst, however people usually get annoyed enough to either put you out of your misery or reset you.

RE: LLJK1's AI and You - BBEG - 08-14-2016

Personally i feel people don't respect the AI because it's pretty much just a door knob that talk's i miss the old days where the AI well and truly fuck up the station. i really feel that people would respect the AI more if it were much more dangerous