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+--- Thread: Recipe Rebalance Hoedown (/showthread.php?tid=6005)
Recipe Rebalance Hoedown - Vitatroll - 03-03-2016
In short this request is: Don't be too hard on the fun reagents and don't go too easy on destructive reagents. The rest of this post is just elaboration.
Before, we couldn't even discuss it. Now, not only can we discuss it, but the recipes are going to change anyways. Might as well address this now. So, what exactly do I mean? Well, lemme give some examples.
Glowin' Flip: I know it might be a possible server eater, but one ingredient made it where nobody felt it was worth the making. It's no fun flipping a station that isn't even there anymore, afterall.
Rajaijah: I only saw antags use it when they got it in bottles or prayed for it. This is a great shame. Raj has amazing potential that was always washed out by it's difficulty. Even when you found it, it was a pain to make and generally just wasn't worth it.
EMSG: Belated. Anima got taken out of it. Still, the fact that it had anima in it once doesn't really change. That was basically just telling people to not make it.
NI3/Nitroglycerin: Both of these recipes had no limiters and were quick to make. They are also HIGHLY destructive. I rate nitroglycerin higher than QGP in terms of danger. 4u in a glass can instagib somebody. Foaming is tricky without a chemnade, but holy shit it's mean. NI3 was just as bad because of it's trigger. Both basically mean instant death. I think highly destructive chems, in the least, should need to be limited by preparation time, a hard to get precursor, or a combination of such.
Phlog/Phlog Dust: Yes, I realize, non-secret. Why is it harder to make the one that doesn't put holes in the floors? Goodness.
Overall I think that interesting chems like Glowin' flip, Raj, and EMSG should be easier to make than stuff like NI3, Nitro, and QGP. Well, maybe not Glowin' flip -- but you get my drift. I'm tired. I hope this makes sense? Eh.
RE: Recipe Rebalance Hoedown - Mageziya - 03-03-2016
Yeah, looking at the list, some secrets probably didn't need to be secret because of how difficult they are to make even if you know them.
Like, initro is ass to make, 20-40 minutes for an amount that could maybe kill one or two people.
Rajaijah is an amazing concept chem but by fucking god there was no hope of anyone ever making it, due to its requirements, ever. While the hub is down right now: Prions, initro, sarin? Initro alone, due to previously mentioned reasons, meant no one would ever make it
Azide's self destructive properties meant it never really needed to be secret, as you need to think outside the box to actually use it. Actually, looking at "//death 2 chemists", it was likely secret so people would accidentally stumble upon it and blow themselves the hell up.
Anima sounds amazing, but no one ever, ever, was going to ever make it because of the requirement to make it on the biodome. I think in all the time I've spent playing, I've only seen anima used once. For such a cool sounding chem, that isn't right.
Sarin is, was, and still is, overpowered. It was always insanely easy to make. It's not physically destructive, and can be cured with a quick witted doctor (With or without atropine.) and if it does kill it leaves behind bodies for cloning, which is why everyone knowing how to make it was never a big problem. If we're going to evaluate efficiency of deadly chems, in amount needed to kill and time to produce, sarin effectively holds the same role as initro and a lot of other deadly poisons, but vastly out performs them due to how insanely easy it is to make.
Voltagen: I love voltagen, everyone loves voltagen, and it's really easy to make. It's also insanely difficult to effectively use without also shocking yourself, and seeing how it was nerfed from its glory days, and seeing how even then it was really harmless, voltagen should probably be unchanged and remain public.
This open discussion of secret chems has been needed for a long time, as they needed balancing, but in the few attempts we had at discussing balance, we couldn't get very far due to how withhold the info was.
Chem balance also has the weird problem of balancing gameplay vs real life. "Well, that super effective death chem is actually easier to make in real life," is an actual problem in the balance of some items. (EX: Triiodide)
Ideally, the chems should be balanced in which difficulty to make is in accordance with their effects.
Side note: That incomplete hell void chem looks really cool. Do make it.
RE: Recipe Rebalance Hoedown - Nnystyxx - 03-04-2016
Impossible =/= balanced =/= Secret =/= fun = good. Rajaijah is the coolest shit I ever got hit with and it was so bewildering and it was WAY more interesting than 'oh I'm getting tox damag-- ded'. It's too rare.
RE: Recipe Rebalance Hoedown - Isaacs Alter Ego - 03-04-2016
All I have to say about all of this is that secrecy is a retarded way to balance things.