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+--- Thread: Cybermen again (/showthread.php?tid=5840)
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Cybermen again - Dabir - 01-13-2016
I've suggested this before, but I've put a bit more thought into it and come back with a few tweaks so I think it's worth a new thread.
Robotics is a bit boring right now, I think most people would agree. So what would make it more interesting? If their main job was now cyber-augmentation! The majority of the augmentations should affect your UI in some visible way, mostly replacing parts of it like your equipment slots with other things. Aside from the fact that if you've permanently grafted a helmet into your skull, you're not exactly going to have a lot of options for hats, it's symbolic of the slow loss of your humanity. Even a replacement arm should turn your hand slot into a more robotic-looking variant.
The augmentations
Cyber-net implant: Open the top of the head with scalpel then saw, then click with the implant to attach it to the brain. Grants cyber-talking, captain-level door access and long-range machine control. However, you are subervient to the AI and its laws. Makes talking more robotic. Brain access now as simple as ID -> screwdriver.
Cyber-heart: Increases stamina max by a lot. Increases stamina regen some.
Cyber-lungs: Inbuilt small air tank.
Cyber-helmet: Open the top of the head with scalpel then saw, then put in the head slot. Helmet is armoured and has inbuilt flashlight that drains stamina. Replaces head slot on UI with flashlight toggle.
Cyber-mask: Put in the mask slot, target the head, staple. Will fall off if not stapled like loosely-attached limbs. Functions as a gas mask. Makes talking more robotic. Removes the wearer's identity.
Cyber-arm: Spaceproof, has increased striking and throwing power. With two cyber-arms, *flex or resist breaks handcuffs instantly. Two arms replace glove slot with ???????. Comes in two varieties.
- Grasper: Can pick up anything a human can. Can drop things, throw things and hit things with things. Can splash beakers on things, but cannot grip tightly to only apply 10 units. Cannot otherwise use things on other things.
- Tool: Can use cyber-tools from a cyber-tool module. Can pick up and attach cyber-augmentations for other people. Alternatively, this arm can have any one handheld item permanently attached. This would mean you could have item limbs without needing a custom sprite for each one.
Cyber-eyes: As they are now.
Cyber-chest unit: Open the chest with scalpel then saw, then put it in the exosuit slot. Torso is spaceproof and armoured. Access to internal organs now as simple as ID then crowbar. Back slot is replaced with 'access tool module' button. Belt slot is now where tool module is kept, replaced by 'eject' button on UI.
Uniform/pockets: ???????
Glasses: ???????
Ears: ???????
Augmentation Encourages Augmentation
The intention is to create kind of a slippery slope, where one upgrade is nice, but it makes you want to get more and more.
Direct synergy benefits
helmet + mask: Head is space-proof.
heart + lungs: Increased stamina regen.
mask + lungs: Can refill air tank from atmosphere.
More subtly
One cyber-leg keeps you upright better, but two gives you mag boots or a speed boost (or a goofy way to clown around). Having one leg encourages getting a second.
Having some limbs encourages getting the rest and a torso, as altogether they function as a spacesuit.
A grasper arm is more limited in function than a regular arm, but stronger. To reach its full potential, gaining the ability to snap cuffs, you'd want a second arm, probably a tool arm. Getting a tool arm encourages getting a torso, so you have access to cybertools on the go.
Getting anything that has a stamina draining function encourages getting a cyberheart so that you can keep them powered, which then encourages cyberlungs for the extra stamina.
Cyber arms encourage getting a cyber-net implant to make up for the loss of flexibility.
If you have a cyber-net implant, the AI or anyone who uploads a law can tell you to get other augmentations.
The great part is that this hardly requires any new graphics at all. Some kind of blank mask for the cyber-mask and a hard hat/helmet combo for the cyber-helmet, but otherwise it could all be repurposed cyborg parts.
Obviously there's a few gaps, a few slots that I haven't thought of replacements for. It could need looking over for balance, too. Ultimately, a fully-augmented human should be basically what cyborgs are now, only not really unfun to play as. Stamina would function as a replacement for their power cell, but that could do with looking at if you feel that having to return to a docking station is a really important part of balancing cyborgs.
In my ideal world, cloning would be replaced with the Frankenstein table idea I came up with a while ago, and each cyber-augmentation would increase the range of power values that successfully revive you, but I know some people are weirdly attached to a reliable way to bring the dead back to life
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Re: Cybermen again - Roomba - 01-13-2016
What I'm worried about is that there aren't very many drawbacks to getting augmented. There's the nebulous point of 'you'll want to get more and more augmented', but why wouldn't you, when there's no downside to being a cybernetic superman? The philosophical implications of the slow loss of humanity is generally lost on your average powergamer. There's stuff like the arms and neural implant which have clear pros/cons, but people can just avoid those.
I think it leaves actual borgs out in the cold too, considering they don't get the benefit of any of these. Actually, it would be nice if borgs got more customization options too. Even with cybernetization in it's current state, roboticists still have more possible interactions with humans than borgs, unless borgs need fixing or a cell change. When the ultimate augmented human is basically 'a borg but better in every way', it kind of leaves actual borgs out in the cold. I don't think being a borg should be the punishment state most people seem to view it as.
Not connected to the main topic, but since you mentioned it - with regards to making revival harder, I'm against it for a couple reasons:
- It encourages paranoid, antisocial and often powergamey behaviour as people seek to stay alive at all costs, which doesn't make for a very fun game. It's often this exact attitude that sees robotics so empty - few people are willing to just hop onto the surgery table, trust in the roboticist and see what happens next.
- The harder it is to be revived, the less reason there is to stick around if you're killed. Yes, being dead is a failure state, but very few people enjoy waiting around meditating on how terrible they are - they just leave to play something else. A single round with an especially efficient killer can result in a drop of over half the players by the time the next round starts. That's another reason why robotics is often empty - when 90% of the corpses you recover over several rounds are braindead, it becomes a little discouraging.
Re: Cybermen again - Grifflez - 01-13-2016
It's all fun and games until a single EMG grenade (or an emag to the face) causes your cyberlimbs to cyberexplode.
Because then you'll be cyberded.
Re: Cybermen again - Dabir - 01-13-2016
Roomba Wrote:I think it leaves actual borgs out in the cold too, considering they don't get the benefit of any of these.It'd be a replacement for current borgs. And yeah, like I said, it could definitely use a balance pass, but right now getting your arms, legs and eyes replaced with robot equivalents is strictly better than not, risk of death in surgery aside. Treads just go faster and mean you stay upright when stunned, arms let you snap cuffs, eyes let you see in all kinds of ways, there's no disadvantage to them. The only cyber augmentation we have now that does have possible disadvantages is cyber hearts.
Re: Cybermen again - Ed Venture - 01-13-2016
Roomba Wrote:I think it leaves actual borgs out in the cold tooI see no issue with this
Re: Cybermen again - Marquesas - 01-13-2016
If this is implemented I'll personally add a rule that you have to yell DELETE an adequate amount of times when killing someone.
Re: Cybermen again - Dabir - 01-13-2016
please no
Re: Cybermen again - atomic1fire - 01-13-2016
Perhaps you could have some easy to make rusting agent, which maybe changes the borg limb colors to a rusty red and slows cyberman and borgs down, rendering them easier to beat up. That could also give oil a purpose, since it would probably somehow fix them, rather then sit unused or get used to slip people.
I'm partial to water + salt shaker = borg fighting reagent, but I understand how dumb that sounds.
Re: Cybermen again - Dabir - 01-14-2016
No that's a good idea. And what if cyber parts got disabled for longer by electrical stuff? So tasers, batons and shocked APCs might put someone out of action for, for sake of argument, 10 seconds, but when they get back up their new cyber-leg isn't working yet and they have to limp around on one working flesh leg for a further 5-10. Obviously those are just made up numbers, ignore the precise numbers.
Re: Cybermen again - babayetu83 - 01-14-2016
bring back replicants 2016
i really like this idea but it will never see the light of day as robotics is the red headed stepchild compared to genetics and chemistry which always gets new and interesting things to do
Re: Cybermen again - Dabir - 01-14-2016
Come on now, we got cyber-eyes not so long ago.
Re: Cybermen again - babayetu83 - 01-14-2016
Dabir Wrote:Come on now, we got cyber-eyes not so long ago.
cyber eyes arent diddly squat compared to what chem and genetics are continuing to get
Re: Cybermen again - Frank_Stein - 01-14-2016
babayetu83 Wrote:I really think the number of genetics mutations should get scaled back a bit, with some of the powers getting turned into cyborg implants. Or there should be redundancy, and getting a truly ubermensch spaceman would require balancing genetics stability with cyborg limitations like power cells.Dabir Wrote:Come on now, we got cyber-eyes not so long ago.
cyber eyes arent diddly squat compared to what chem and genetics are continuing to get
Re: Cybermen again - TheOnlyRyan - 01-14-2016
Roomba Wrote:What I'm worried about is that there aren't very many drawbacks to getting augmented. There's the nebulous point of 'you'll want to get more and more augmented', but why wouldn't you, when there's no downside to being a cybernetic superman? The philosophical implications of the slow loss of humanity is generally lost on your average powergamer. There's stuff like the arms and neural implant which have clear pros/cons, but people can just avoid those.
It could always be that your augments, depending on the severity of the the augment, like an entire new chest requires a power cell and you need to intermittently recharge or find a new cell. You could be more suseptabal to electric damage, your augments when beat with blunt objects could get so broken and crazy that they start electrocuting you until you pull out the power cell and then lose power and functionality to that augment. If it's your lefts, no more legs for you.
There's plenty of ways this could be nerfed to a nice middle ground.
I also like the idea of Robotics having the option to either emag the production machines ( or hack ) depending on how nice the coders are feeling to make it possible to produce weapon augments, like taser arms, baton arms, phaser arms and laser arms ( with an extreme usage of the power cell I mentioned of course )
You'd have an effective taser or laser arm, capable of not being knocked out of your hand, this could be nerfed by either removing the ability to pick up with that hand, or having such a high energy usage that the arm quickly needs a recharge. And maybe a 1% rng roll that your arm explodes on use.
It sounds like a lot of work if people start coding this but it sure could be nice.
![[Image: 20150306042557?path-prefix=protagonist]](http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/p__/images/2/2b/1_edward_elrick.png/revision/20150306042557?path-prefix=protagonist)
Re: Cybermen again - Nnystyxx - 01-15-2016
Fund it.
No, but seriously. I say it on Cybermen threads, I say it on Robot threads, I say it on Borg threads. Give Robotics something to actually do, aside from cybereyes/hearts it's been basically the same thing for what, literally years?? Bolt the door open and the surgeons take those anyway. Genetics has like a billion new powers and is way easier to use, Chemistry is getting new reagents, et cetera, Robotics shouldn't be left out in the cold especially since it's almost always just as big as those same areas if not bigger.