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+--- Thread: More Specialty Security Jobs (/showthread.php?tid=5756)
More Specialty Security Jobs - DyssalC - 12-18-2015
In order to make security a more attractive department and add a few extra functionalities and specialties to security teams, there should be new sec specialty jobs that are one-person only in the same fashion as the detective. Parts of this idea detail new items or functionalities that would need to be coded in, such as a "Pepper Spray" item or billy-club type weapon, however they aren't integral to the ideas (with the exception of maybe Warden)
Hunter Officer: Track and capture particularly tricky criminals.
Equipment- Tranq Rifle, flasher (perhaps a smaller variant that doesn't incinerate bushes, or perhaps a variant that performs the hootingium reaction for a more potent effect), Hunter's Outfit
ID- Standard sec access without equipment access but with sec dispenser access.
Special- Has a different-named George in his place of spawn. No real function (though it could if somebody wanted to take the time to give it one, perhaps it can sniff a blood sample and track down the owner of that blood), just so the Hunter can own a bloodhound. Also, if possible, would benefit from a melee weapon that uses no power and depletes moderate amounts of stamina on hit instead of health, to be used when the tranq rifle is out of ammo or to conserve tranq ammo.
Hall Monitor: Patrol the station, monitor for security infractions, get actual security officers to solve problems.
Equipment- Security headset, flash, PDA capable of calling Securitrons.
ID- Access to security but not equipment, brig, or sec dispensers.
Special- ID scanning device, probably a wand rather than something that requires you to actually hold the ID, scans ID slot for ID and then determines what its original details were such as name and access levels.
Vice Officer (Permanent): Make sure that any drugs or liquor on or around the station are at or above regulation standards. If not, confiscate (forcefully if need be) and destroy (in whatever manner you see fit) the contraband.
Equipment- Flash, 2 random drug bottles (real drug) and 1 ??? drug bottle, cocaine bag, 2 spray bottles full of a 50/50 mix of capsaicin and itching powder labelled "Pepper Spray" (alternatively this becomes an actual item)
ID- Standard sec access without equipment access but with sec dispenser access, chemistry access, botany access, bar access.
Warden: Ensure that prisoners STAY prisoners, watch the armory.
Equipment- Riot shotgun, Warden's Outfit.
ID- Standard sec access with armory (but not armory lockers) and control room (see special) access.
Special- Add in defensive features to sec, such as blast doors that can be deployed from a control room only the HoS and Warden have access to (with the same inability to grant access to it through customs that the armory has). Give them the ability to act as a pseudo AI for security with a control room that has cameras that function the same as the AI's do and also gives him the ability to control doors he's looking at on the cameras.
Incoming words, just some of my personal thoughts on things about my post.
The reason for keeping these jobs (besides Warden) from having equipment access is that it'd take away from standard security if these two jobs had access to their equipment. They receive equipment suitable for what their specific jobs demand, as they aren't standard security officers. The tranq rifle has finite ammo available because the Hunter isn't a standard sec officer to be constantly deployed, they're meant to be the sec officer that hunts down and uses traps and trickery to capture the really annoying criminal that always escapes from sec somehow. Their tranquilizer emphasizes this by the fact that, unlike a tazer, the bullets don't lose any sort of stopping power over distances traveled, so the hunter can hide a distance away from their target and take shots from far away.The vice officers flash and pepper spray are meant for disabling drug addicts who are usually not going to be a huge threat but possibly difficult to takedown due to the drugs, so the pepper spray is meant to act as more of a debilitater than an actual takedown weapon.
The Warden should probably NOT be a white-list job. I know there's a difference in arsenal size between the entire armory and something like the captain's E-gun or the Barman's one riot shotgun, however at the same time it's reasonable to assume that if somebody would abuse one of those then they would most certainly abuse this, and as such should be looked at the same way as those two jobs would be viewed in terms of weapons, if they start shit, go around rampaging or whatever, put a stop to it and see to it that they're spaced and ahelped. However that's the beauty of the Warden job, you're intended to stay in sec as Warden, maybe leave to go get a drink or something, or maybe you're the last man alive on sec, but if you're a sec officer and see the Warden out and about on the prowl that's a big red flag, as they're supposed to stay in sec and support sec via cameras and door controls.
Finally, these jobs outline that the very important distinction between different security roles, sort of how a Detective is not a Security Officer but serves a Security function. They're intended to pick up the slack where normal security usually has trouble, or meant to keep a reign on the smaller things so standard sec doesn't have to worry about the particularly small things. However, at the same time, each of these has their limitations. The Hunter should not be going on a security rampage. Maybe they hide around the station watching things and reporting in, but they shouldn't being going nuts around town. The Vice Officer should probably avoid dealing with particularly large crimes. It's fine to deal with drugs, poisonings (especially bar poisonings), or the small things that happen around you, like say if somebody is breaking in somewhere, give them a spritz of pepper spray to get them to knock off, but probably best to avoid tackling problems with general security, as the pepper spray is very likely to harm your friends and yourself just as likely as it is to harm the perp in a large-scale kerfuffle (just like real pepper spray!). The Warden is very important in keeping sec safe from saboteurs and helping the sec team chase down perps, and losing the Warden's assistant either because he has wanderlust or because he died to a ling from his wanderlust is a incentive to keep him in sec rather than out in the field with other officers.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - Vunterslaush - 12-19-2015
I would like to see more specialty jobs for security, and these are all pretty great. Although I'm not sure how well the Warden being like a mini AI would work out. Pepper spray would be a nice tool to add for officers.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - Ed Venture - 12-19-2015
These are all neat ideas and I like them except for warden. Admins have stated that warden will never be a thing because they feel no one wants to babysit the brig all round. I happen to agree with them. Also currently any security officer can do any of these specialty jobs you stated here. I like the idea of giving more unique roles to security but I rather leave it open ended for the players as it is now. As you see I'm very conflicted on this.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - atomic1fire - 12-19-2015
I feel like warden would only be possible if we went back to donut security/assistant turf wars, where people were constantly getting arrested for trespassing or theft.
That said, if there were more dedicated "CRIMERS" on destiny, you could have an RP warden role with objectives like "Start a prison football game", "Attempt to create prison reform with the arts" etc.
Imagine THE RAPPER on destiny.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - DyssalC - 12-19-2015
Ed Venture Wrote:These are all neat ideas and I like them except for warden. Admins have stated that warden will never be a thing because they feel no one wants to babysit the brig all round. I happen to agree with them. Also currently any security officer can do any of these specialty jobs you stated here. I like the idea of giving more unique roles to security but I rather leave it open ended for the players as it is now. As you see I'm very conflicted on this.I understand that the idea that nobody would want to sit around all day at the brig doing nothing, but my idea of giving the Warden a sort of control room that gives him the ability to control things like blast doors or whatever setup around sec in the event of an escape/break-in and a camera system that works as a sort of downgraded AI system is my way of addressing this. Now they have more responsibilities than just watching the empty brig.
The reason it seems like many of these jobs can be done by current sec is because they CAN be done by current sec, but only in the same way that a staff assistant can perform medical treatments. Yes, they can work with the medicines and such, but they don't get the same special tools and access that a medical doctor does. This is to say that the General Security Officer is the Staff Assistant and the Special Security Officer is the Medical Doctor. They can both do the same things but one can do it considerably better, not to mention this idea is also being geared towards both Cog2 and Destiny, so the ideas are meant to include both RP and practical elements for sec.
Vunterslash Wrote:I would like to see more specialty jobs for security, and these are all pretty great. Although I'm not sure how well the Warden being like a mini AI would work out. Pepper spray would be a nice tool to add for officers.I'm curious as to what your issues are with the Warden having AI-like powers are. My vision for it is just door control, nothing like full-on electronics access like APC control and accessing consoles via cameras.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - Ed Venture - 12-19-2015
all it takes for a security officer to do something they can do alittle better is a trip to customs.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - Vunterslaush - 12-19-2015
My issue was more that other people could just break in there and be terrible with that. I might just be looking to much into it to be honest.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - DyssalC - 12-19-2015
Ed Venture Wrote:all it takes for a security officer to do something they can do alittle better is a trip to customs.All it takes for a staff assistant to do something a medical doctor can do a little better is a trip to customs.
I'm not really seeing an argument here. Customs can make any specialty job they want, jobs that don't exist, access to whatever, any job title, anything they want. By this logic everybody should be staff assistants and the HoP should be in charge of giving everybody jobs. This is not a valid point.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - DyssalC - 12-19-2015
Vunterslaush Wrote:My issue was more that other people could just break in there and be terrible with that. I might just be looking to much into it to be honest.Well this is definitely a possibility to be sure, but there's a few ways it should be looked at.
The system that performs this could be ID linked, that is you require a specific ID for the machine to even be operable.
Or, alternatively, maybe that SHOULD be possible, though difficult. Maybe if there's a sec officer with this sort of power it should be able to be taken away from them and used against them if it isn't properly looked after, similarly to the armory. After all, the Warden is intended to stick around Security, so if there's a Warden around there SHOULD be at least one person looking after it.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - Ed Venture - 12-19-2015
DyssalC Wrote:Ed Venture Wrote:all it takes for a security officer to do something they can do alittle better is a trip to customs.All it takes for a staff assistant to do something a medical doctor can do a little better is a trip to customs.
I'm not really seeing an argument here. Customs can make any specialty job they want, jobs that don't exist, access to whatever, any job title, anything they want. By this logic everybody should be staff assistants and the HoP should be in charge of giving everybody jobs. This is not a valid point.
and that reflects on how security officers can already do the things your special jobs would do. It's open ended and it should stay like that and if an officer wanted to be a medic officer then they could just get more med bay access added on. Letting a warden open doors does not make the job sound any more appealing.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - DyssalC - 12-19-2015
Ed Venture Wrote:Okay, remove Roboticists, remove Geneticists, give Medical Doctors all medical access, as all of their departments are just functions of Medbay and any medical doctor can actually do them, they just lack the tools and access.DyssalC Wrote:Ed Venture Wrote:all it takes for a security officer to do something they can do alittle better is a trip to customs.All it takes for a staff assistant to do something a medical doctor can do a little better is a trip to customs.
I'm not really seeing an argument here. Customs can make any specialty job they want, jobs that don't exist, access to whatever, any job title, anything they want. By this logic everybody should be staff assistants and the HoP should be in charge of giving everybody jobs. This is not a valid point.
and that reflects on how security officers can already do the things your special jobs would do. It's open ended and it should stay like that and if an officer wanted to be a medic officer then they could just get more med bay access added on. Letting a warden open doors does not make the job sound any more appealing.
Also, remove Detective and just move his VR goggles and scanner to security, and just put the .38 box in sec as well. Any sec officer can investigate a crime, detective is unnecessary.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - Ed Venture - 12-19-2015
I'm not talking about med-bay and their jobs I am talking about how the things you want are already there. The detective is a thing cause normal officer hardly investigate anything they look out for current crimes in the making.
You need to remain on topic and try and explain why splitting up security roles and possibly equipment is a good thing. I'm open to this but you've have not done a good job in explaining why it is a good thing. Also Med-bay is split up into other jobs sections because it needs more then one person (cause as you just said remove all of those jobs except for MD and give it all med bay access) to function. Security does not function like med bay does. It does not need three or more different sub-jobs to function well.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - Ed Venture - 12-19-2015
Quote:Also Med-bay is split up into other jobs sections because it needs more then one job (cause as you just said remove all of those jobs except for MD and give it all med bay access) to function.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - DyssalC - 12-19-2015
Ed Venture Wrote:I'm not talking about med-bay and their jobs I am talking about how the things you want are already there. The detective is a thing cause normal officer hardly investigate anything they look out for current crimes in the making.If you can't see how what I presented so plainly is linked to what we're discussing then you're not even trying to see this from a different perspective and are therefore incapable of discussion, but I'll try to explain this even more plainly.
You need to remain on topic and try and explain why splitting up security roles and possibly equipment is a good thing. I'm open to this but you've have not done a good job in explaining why it is a good thing. Also Med-bay is split up into other jobs sections because it needs more then one person (cause as you just said remove all of those jobs except for MD and give it all med bay access) to function. Security does not function like med bay does. It does not need three or more different sub-jobs to function well.
Splitting up security roles is a good thing because it:
1. Makes Security More Efficient- Currently, security is an amorphous blob of redshirts. Quite frequently it is staffed mostly/only by new players who wandered into the job thinking it'd be easy street, only to discover that it's anything but, because as a security officer you are tasked with looking over ALL aspects of security. This means very minor things, like theft, break-ins, and vandalism, moderate things, like assault and muggings, and incredibly major things, like ling hunting, syndicate, and bombings. The point of specialization is to take this pressure off of standard sec by including jobs that are meant to specifically deal with these things. Now an Officer can offload the theft to the Hall Monitor, the Assault to the Hunter, and the major things will be much easier to do now that the Warden is giving them a run down of the ling's location and trapping him in doors for him.
2. Fun- Sometimes videogames are meant to be fun. An important part of fun is feeling like you're actually doing something and getting to do something special that others can't. The Warden would still be fun for some (I will admit that it won't be fun for all, but then again most things never are) as you get to feel sort of omniscient and omnipotent in the same way as the AI, however without the restrictions the AI has, like being a brain in a box. As the Hunter you're sort of playing the sec officer equivalent of the traitor with an assassination objective. You get silently track down and shoot up particularly annoying criminals, and enjoy the thrill of a hunt.
3. Makes Security More Attractive- A sentiment that I've seen mirrored by others is that security doesn't get much play. I personally believe that the fun of the job is outweighed by the huge responsibility that sec officers have and how everybody gets really mad at them over everything, even things that aren't their fault. They are highly scrutinized by the general community and quite frequently yelled at in deadchat and post-game. It's just not enjoyable to go through that. However, by adding some more flavorful jobs that aren't given 100% responsibility (similarly to the Detective), this'd become a less frequent (but still prevalent) issue, as you can't really blame the Hall Monitor for not stopping that syndicate, you can't really expect the Hunter to waste their tranq rounds on the thief, and it's the Warden's job not to leave security for too long, so of course they didn't save you from being mugged.
Also your point about Medbay and Security not being similar simply due to access is moot, especially because you earlier tried to say Warden wouldn't be made necessary just because of a control room. You see, if Medbay needing multiple jobs only exists because of the access restrictions, then Security requiring the Warden is validated because of the Control Room, as only they would have access, besides the HoS, however he'd only have access as he's the Head of the department, the same reason all other Heads have access to all of their departments.
Also, it doesn't need multiple subjobs to run well, that is correct. However, subjobs make it run well more frequently, just like Medbay. How do I know this?
Compare a round with just sec officers and a round with sec officers and a HoS. Guess which one will have a better security team? Majority of the time (but not all of the time, that'd be an absolute which is something you seem to think I'm claiming judging by your choice of argument) the sec team with the HoS will do better.
Re: More Specialty Security Jobs - Ed Venture - 12-19-2015
You views seem bias at most. Mostly the ones about fun and responsibility. Also I was not talking about medbay needing more then one job because of access (wut) and I also dismissed your earlier posts that branched off subject cause I felt they did not matter as instead of explaining your side of it you wasted your efforts in trying to poke holes in my logic. Also I can't help but feel you are getting a tad offensive over this. Maybe I'm reading too much into your comments but that's just the feeling I am getting reading over your post.
1. Security has always been about carrying out your own sense of crime and punishment as long as you don't break the rules while doing so. I could argue this brings fun to the table. I agree that adding some more sub sections to it could add even further to it.
2. Security has always given players free reign on how they can handle anything. Hell even Vice cops can still act like normal officers when they need to.
3.You bit about responsibility makes some sense but not completely. All a new player or even an long time player needs to know about security before playing is to read the rules and use common sense before playing the job and they will be fine. If they don't and get in trouble then it's on them not the job itself.
4. You say it would make security more efficient but my past rounds since cogmap2 I have had nothing but good players new and old playing security. I've mention earlier in other thread how a full sec team I was apart of split up and cover the entire station and used amazing teamwork. Maybe your just limited by your experiences? I think it could certainly add to certain things and may even be a more relaxing way to ease players into security all together
I'm not trying to be all negative here as I stated that I'm open to it but still conflicted to it. My main concern which I failed to voice was that adding too much roles to security may make things harder in the long run. This fear comes from Captains thinking they can run security and the ways they handle things as normal security officers roles could conflict with the other special class roles and lead to needless arguments when they are all on the same team to begin with