+- Goonstation Forums (https://forum.ss13.co)
+-- Forum: Discussion (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Ideas & Suggestions (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+---- Forum: Bad threads / terrible or unusable ideas! (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=20)
+---- Thread: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only (/showthread.php?tid=4949)
Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Kubius - 06-13-2015
Right now, Dragon's Breath is a stunningly powerful chemical inside sleepy pens - this is due to the fact that not only does it kill within seconds, it also completely disintegrates you, leaving no evidence and no chance for revival. I have been killed more times by Dragon's Breath disintegration in the last few weeks than I have been killed by all other poisons combined in the entire time I've been playing SS13.
Essentially, right now, Dragon's Breath is Shocking Grasp. Except Dragon's Breath is more powerful - you don't even need to stand next to them, you just need to slip by and deliver an injection.
Hence the following nerf: limit disintegration to ingestion (swallowing pills, drinking, et cetera). The most important thing this would do is allow a brief moment to react before you're killed - unlike the current sleepy pen situation, where once someone's gotten near you, they can permanently kill you without you ever knowing who they were. You'd still be able to ash people easily, but not without a chance for the victim to react.
On injection, you wouldn't get the "Your throat burns terribly!" message, but it might still deal significant burn damage (blood loss and unconsciousness as well?). I get that it's supposed to be a super secret uber-powerful drink, but holy crap, shouldn't you at least have to DRINK it to get permanently erased from existence?
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Winklabom - 06-13-2015
This thread seems like a kneejerk reaction to being killed by Dragon's Breath.
I don't think that Dragon's Breath needs to be nerfed because its deadliness really comes from pure RNG: you have a really small chance of being disintegrated every cycle. It only becomes problematic if you have really large amounts of it in your bloodstream.
Just like sarin is easily countered with Atropine, you can counter Dragon's Breath by drinking milk.
Most of the time you'll just end up super drunk.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Vunterslaush - 06-13-2015
I have survived Dragons Breath way to many times in recent months. It makes me think that I am either extremely lucky, or it has a reduced rate per cycle.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - DyssalC - 06-13-2015
On one hand, this does in fact seem like a very knee-jerk reaction.
On the other hand, this secret chem is a combination of really deadly and easy to make, especially because it can not only kill instantly, but disposes of the body as well.
It might be worth some sort of nerf, but at the same time I've never actually seen Dragon Breath used in a sleepy pen, so it also might not be that big of a deal.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Kubius - 06-13-2015
Winklabom Wrote:I don't think that Dragon's Breath needs to be nerfed because its deadliness really comes from pure RNG: you have a really small chance of being disintegrated every cycle. It only becomes problematic if you have really large amounts of it in your bloodstream.
Sleepy pens deliver fifty units. The chance of gibbing is one percent per unit. This means, on average, you will gib in two ticks. It does decay over time, but only by 0.4 a tick - it's essentially GUARANTEED you're going to gib.
I was concerned about this looking like a knee-jerk reaction, and it partially is, but I saw two other people killed by the same thing in the last round I got dragon's breath penned in.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Houka - 06-13-2015
Kubius Wrote:Sleepy pens deliver fifty units. The chance of gibbing is one percent per unit. This means, on average, you will gib in two ticks. It does decay over time, but only by 0.4 a tick - it's essentially GUARANTEED you're going to gib.
I was concerned about this looking like a knee-jerk reaction, and it partially is, but I saw two other people killed by the same thing in the last round I got dragon's breath penned in.
Who the shit uses 50 units of Dragon's Breath in a single pen jab. That's just wasteful.
This is a knee-jerk reaction, yes. The recipe could use some updating, I will concede to that, but the chemical itself is fine. The fact that someone with sufficient access can mass-produce this shit is probably an issue for the same reasons mass producing things like initropidril is a problem. It's just a step below QGP if someone can make tons of it and ash tons of people without running out of the stuff quickly.
I vote for reevaluating the recipe.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Kubius - 06-13-2015
Houka Wrote:This is a knee-jerk reaction, yes. The recipe could use some updating, I will concede to that, but the chemical itself is fine. The fact that someone with sufficient access can mass-produce this shit is probably an issue for the same reasons mass producing things like initropidril is a problem. It's just a step below QGP if someone can make tons of it and ash tons of people without running out of the stuff quickly.
I vote for reevaluating the recipe.
The mass-production is definitely a problem - if you only had 50 units in total to utilize, it would be far less effective for rampages or even usage at all. The thing that gets me about Dragon's Breath isn't the killing - that part I'm okay with. The problem I have is the fact that it's an instant no-revive situation - sarin doesn't destroy your body, neither does initropidril. With sarin or initropidril, I have a chance to continue if I'm revived - no such luck with the Dragon's Breath.
And yeah, QGP is massively powerful but it's limited by the recipe - which Dragon's Breath isn't. The killer in the last round I encountered Dragon's Breath filled up an artifact beaker with it.
I might have (probably) suggested the wrong nerf, but it would be good for something to be done about this.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Vitatroll - 06-13-2015
I have been hit with a DB pen once, I think. I'm more for nerfing things only if they're run into the ground; like radium or Initro.
That being said, if it gets nerfed, I'd rather it be changed as you've suggested. It's an easy secret chem. It's technically a drink. I'd rather it be treated as a gimmicky food item with uses for creative taters than just another deathchem. People who know recipes seem to forget (I do, anyways) the process of learning them. There has to be gateway chems. This is one of the more fun ones that gets people into the hunt.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Grayshift - 06-13-2015
I think the DB penning is just one guy who runs things into the ground.
That said, maybe it could stand a little change. Maybe DB has to be in your system for X ticks before it has a chance to firegib. Add milk to one of the vending machines as that can neutralize it if you're quick.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Kubius - 06-13-2015
Grayshift Wrote:I think the DB penning is just one guy who runs things into the ground.
That said, maybe it could stand a little change. Maybe DB has to be in your system for X ticks before it has a chance to firegib. Add milk to one of the vending machines as that can neutralize it if you're quick.
I like the idea on the "only gibs after a certain number of ticks" reasonably well (especially with milk being available), but it basically turns it into Initrobeedril minus the bees and plus ash. Having Dragon's Breath not ash-ify you when injected (but still deal damage) would let it stay usable in sleepypens but restrict its main power to ingesting it - which makes sense, considering it's supposed to be a super-powerful evil beverage.
I have to admit, though, the concept of having to run and get milk from a vendor before I turn into a pile of ash sounds actually surprisingly entertaining. I'd get behind the "X ticks before firegib" thing.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - vampirate - 06-13-2015
Hi. It's me. The person who made an artifact beaker full of dragon's breath and spent an hour penning people. This thread was made during the time that round was going no. Thank you for that.
That said.
Dragon's breath breaks down to ridiculously small quantities without an arti beaker. It takes a few steps to make, and it is ridiculously obvious someone got penned when they disintegrate. Again, thank you for this thread. That round was so much fun. I hope the ghosts enjoyed me saying "ei nath" after every kill.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - vampirate - 06-13-2015
To clarify... basically Dragon's Breath requires patience, and a big arti beaker to make. A sleepy pen, and if you try to make it with an artibeaker you're looking at a long time. Using a watering can you can combine the five ingrediants twice. This makes twenty units, then you have to use another watering can, and transfer it over. Trust me. A good db round is reliant on getting an artibeaker, and at then it took twenty minutes prep to get going. I could have bombed the entire station in that time. DB doesn't need a nerf.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Scrumpys - 06-13-2015
vampirate Wrote:To clarify... basically Dragon's Breath requires patience, and a big arti beaker to make. A sleepy pen, and if you try to make it with an artibeaker you're looking at a long time. Using a watering can you can combine the five ingrediants twice. This makes twenty units, then you have to use another watering can, and transfer it over. Trust me. A good db round is reliant on getting an artibeaker, and at then it took twenty minutes prep to get going. I could have bombed the entire station in that time. DB doesn't need a nerf.
This pretty much. DB takes quite large amounts of ingredients to make in any significant quantity, so its a lotta work.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - BaneOfGiygas - 06-13-2015
Scrumpys Wrote:I can confirm this. If I'm gonna be perfectly honest, the fact that the guy was able to wreak as much havoc as he did with the stuff is worthy of applause.vampirate Wrote:To clarify... basically Dragon's Breath requires patience, and a big arti beaker to make. A sleepy pen, and if you try to make it with an artibeaker you're looking at a long time. Using a watering can you can combine the five ingrediants twice. This makes twenty units, then you have to use another watering can, and transfer it over. Trust me. A good db round is reliant on getting an artibeaker, and at then it took twenty minutes prep to get going. I could have bombed the entire station in that time. DB doesn't need a nerf.
This pretty much. DB takes quite large amounts of ingredients to make in any significant quantity, so its a lotta work.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Stryxic - 06-13-2015
vampirate Wrote:To clarify... basically Dragon's Breath requires patience, and a big arti beaker to make. A sleepy pen, and if you try to make it with an artibeaker you're looking at a long time. Using a watering can you can combine the five ingrediants twice. This makes twenty units, then you have to use another watering can, and transfer it over. Trust me. A good db round is reliant on getting an artibeaker, and at then it took twenty minutes prep to get going. I could have bombed the entire station in that time. DB doesn't need a nerf.
Or Chem access and a Chemicompiler should be able to do it, given the ingredients. That way it should be a fair bit easier to get 100 units, albeit slower. Still, I think the arcane mysteries of the Chemicompiler would be enough to keep anyone from questioning why a barman was using it.