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+--- Thread: AI Camera Rework (/showthread.php?tid=4113)
AI Camera Rework - SL the Pyro - 02-03-2015
I've been noticing a lot of complaints about the way the AI navigates the station, and was unsurprised when they eventually snowballed into half a page worth of posts from different people in the Something Awful thread. Let's face it, working through the clunky camera interface, especially when you're trying to keep tabs on several events at once, is not fun. You can't tell me it's an important and integral "part of the AI experience" when half of the players Alt+F4 just so they don't have to suffer it.
tl;dr: We need a new AI camera system, and I would like to suggest the following:
-Allow the AI's camera view to move around like a Ghost, deployable with a simple move of the directional keys; the AI itself cannot move from its spot on its own, so this shouldn't conflict with anything.
-Places the AI can see are still dictated by its active cameras, it's just given more freedom. As for the places the cameras (or the AI from its current physical location) can't see, these can be covered with some kind of blue static overlay that is unique to the AI's viewpoint. It can still move through this static, but cannot see or interact with anything obscured by it.
-Cutting a camera would create a new blot of static, repairing a camera would get rid of the static. Obvious, but it needed to be said.
-Active cameras can still be warped to with the AI's camera menu, like a Ghost would Teleport to an area of the station; the only difference is that the physical camera is the dedicated warp point, and it cannot be used if the camera in question is cut.
-"Track With Camera" would work similar to the Ghost's Observe command in that it would follow the target, but a target wandering into an unobservable (static-laden) area would "exorcise" the AIobserveghostthing from the target's body, leaving it where he just entered the static from. (If this is too difficult code-wise, it can just default to the AI's current physical location instead.)
Thoughts? Changes you'd make? I really want to see this happen.
Re: AI Camera Rework - Vunterslaush - 02-03-2015
I think that the camera network might be in need of an overhaul. It can be troublesome when you get stuck in a really tough spot to get out of in the network while tracking someone. It even leaves some blind spots for crime, and other assorted villainy. So depending on how hard this is to code it may work well.
Re: AI Camera Rework - UrsulaMejor - 02-03-2015
it'd be way too obvious that your cameras were damaged.
how about a minimap in tnt upper right that lets you skip to places with a click? it'd have like red dots indicating where cameras are supposed to be installed and would let you zoom around the map quickly + accurately without needing s huge overhaul
Re: AI Camera Rework - BaneOfGiygas - 02-03-2015
In addition to this, giving the AI a sort of hotkeys tab with easy links to major, frequently-visited station locations (Bar, Bridge, Brig, Medbay, etc.) that they can click on to automatically shift to that camera instead of having to slowly shuffle their view over or deal with the godawful dropdown menu would be much appreciated and help greatly in being able to quickly respond to a crisis.
Re: AI Camera Rework - thehman03 - 02-03-2015
UrsulaMejor Wrote:it'd be way too obvious that your cameras were damaged.
This really doesn't matter, it's pretty obvious already due to the obvious black squares that show up in places that have been cut off. I prefer the ghost movement idea.
Re: AI Camera Rework - Erev - 02-03-2015
UrsulaMejor Wrote:it'd be way too obvious that your cameras were damaged.
how about a minimap in tnt upper right that lets you skip to places with a click? it'd have like red dots indicating where cameras are supposed to be installed and would let you zoom around the map quickly + accurately without needing s huge overhaul
Does it matter that much? I mean everything that was missing anyways would also be staticy. You'd still need to know the station. I mean I get it, but the quality of life improvement seems to outweigh the other issue in my opinion.
Alternatively yo could make the default view of the station one without people for the AI - people and creatures only show up when in range of a camera.
The AI in general needs a rework, IMO. There just isn't enough to do unless someone gives you a gimmick and, nine times of ten, they are poorly written hack-jobs of laws.
Re: AI Camera Rework - Frank_Stein - 02-03-2015
I agree, it really needs work. It's one of the most jarring things, considering how greatly other systems have been improved to be less of a pain to work with.
SL the Pyro Wrote:-Allow the AI's camera view to move around like a Ghost, deployable with a simple move of the directional keys; the AI itself cannot move from its spot on its own, so this shouldn't conflict with anything.
-Places the AI can see are still dictated by its active cameras, it's just given more freedom. As for the places the cameras (or the AI from its current physical location) can't see, these can be covered with some kind of blue static overlay that is unique to the AI's viewpoint. It can still move through this static, but cannot see or interact with anything obscured by it.
-Cutting a camera would create a new blot of static, repairing a camera would get rid of the static. Obvious, but it needed to be said.
-Active cameras can still be warped to with the AI's camera menu, like a Ghost would Teleport to an area of the station; the only difference is that the physical camera is the dedicated warp point, and it cannot be used if the camera in question is cut.
-"Track With Camera" would work similar to the Ghost's Observe command in that it would follow the target, but a target wandering into an unobservable (static-laden) area would "exorcise" the AIobserveghostthing from the target's body, leaving it where he just entered the static from. (If this is too difficult code-wise, it can just default to the AI's current physical location instead.)
That's a fairly good way to go about it.
UrsulaMejor Wrote:it'd be way too obvious that your cameras were damaged.I don't think it's that huge of an issue. As has been stated, it's not like the AI would be able to do anything about it other than report it to the crew in hopes they fix it. A cunning traitor could even use that as a distraction or bait. However, let me suggest an alternative to alleviate that. Instead of having a cut camera area go static, just have it no longer show mobs in the area. Kinda like the cloaking field, just less obvious.
A minimap/fast navigation mode would also be nice.
Re: AI Camera Rework - pizzatiger - 02-04-2015
Frank_Stein Wrote:Instead of having a cut camera area go static, just have it no longer show mobs in the area. Kinda like the cloaking field, just less obvious.
yes!Yes!YES!
That and a little red LIVE dot in the AI UI/GUI that turns off if an area if the video recording thing is off and two new wires, One that sets off a alarmto the AI and one that keeps the LIVE dot on even if the wires are cut
Re: AI Camera Rework - franfoer - 02-04-2015
This could be too much work, but why not both?
"Default" is you cut the camera, create a 'static' mess. Presumably if you're cutting the camera you're trying to stop AI interaction in a busy spot, so it doesn't take too long for an AI to realise why they can't see an area anyway, you're just buying time. Or you want to hide a killzone, in which case...
...upload a video feed to the camera network. Have a 'video tape' item similar to the audio logs. It could be a traitor-specific item, or it could be found in a couple places around the station--security, legal office (for video dispositions), journalists might spawn with them, one in the gym for sports, part of a QM crate. You first have to connect it to the camera network and record video, maybe a maximum recording length of 5 minutes. Then connect it so it takes the place of the normal recording (with a subtle indicator on the camera?). It allows for more fun, plus lets a savvy AI think 'Hey, the captain's walked into the bar and shot himself five times now!'
That said, I don't think the fundamentals of the camera network need changing, it's just the shitty navigation. The dropdown menu for hotspots is a nice idea, but just making it so you can navigate smoothly through the station grid using arrow keys/WASD would solve 90% of the issue without getting into design philosophy.
Re: AI Camera Rework - SL the Pyro - 02-04-2015
Frank_Stein Wrote:Instead of having a cut camera area go static, just have it no longer show mobs in the area. Kinda like the cloaking field, just less obvious.I'm wondering how hard cloaking people in cut camera areas would be coding-wise, and IMO cutting to static just makes more sense to me. That said though, I'd accept this as an alternative.
A minimap/fast navigation mode would also be nice.
I'd also be very okay with a minimap, but it would need to be big enough to click where you want to go to, which might obscure the in-game view a bit too much... perhaps it can be in a pop-up window or a menu tab?
Re: AI Camera Rework - Paineframe - 02-04-2015
Seeing static all over the place just sounds really annoying and visually noisy, I'd much prefer it to just be black
Re: AI Camera Rework - UrsulaMejor - 02-04-2015
thehman03 Wrote:obvious black squares?UrsulaMejor Wrote:it'd be way too obvious that your cameras were damaged.
This really doesn't matter, it's pretty obvious already due to the obvious black squares that show up in places that have been cut off. I prefer the ghost movement idea.
sounds like a bug to me. ever since ai lost xray, you'd never know if you couldn't see into a particular room unless you decided to manually check if the camera was working via the cameras screen. basically, you could cut half the station before the ai noticed and by then it's too late.
ghost movement idea sounds slow and blech to me, personally. I'd prefer if it were a toggle.
a good alternative would be to have ghost movement automatically lock you to the nearest camera to the ghost reticle
Re: AI Camera Rework - Klayboxx - 02-04-2015
SL the Pyro Wrote:Frank_Stein Wrote:Instead of having a cut camera area go static, just have it no longer show mobs in the area. Kinda like the cloaking field, just less obvious.I'm wondering how hard cloaking people in cut camera areas would be coding-wise, and IMO cutting to static just makes more sense to me. That said though, I'd accept this as an alternative.
A minimap/fast navigation mode would also be nice.
I'd also be very okay with a minimap, but it would need to be big enough to click where you want to go to, which might obscure the in-game view a bit too much... perhaps it can be in a pop-up window or a menu tab?
Not hard? The code exists via those green goggles (spacing on the name)
Re: AI Camera Rework - icarus - 02-04-2015
it's been a while since i've AIed, but doesn't the camera list have a (Deactivated) next to cut cameras, so you know where cameras are cut anyways?
i just don't really want us bending over backwards to keep ai cameras shitty
Re: AI Camera Rework - Grizzwold - 02-04-2015
As someone who frequently plays AI, I agree that the cameras are ass. Please make them less ass, thanks.