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+---- Thread: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 (/showthread.php?tid=3396)
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Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - Roomba - 10-21-2014
Admin name: Volundr
Server: LLJK 4
Date/Time: 21/10/14, about 10.30 pm, GMT+8
Synopsis: The round had been going for about an hour, and nothing major was happening, so people wanted the shuttle called. After suggesting that the shuttle should be called because nothing was happening, I was promptly muted, and when I adminhelped, was told that this was because my opinions were dumb. At thirty seconds before the shuttle arrived it was recalled via admin fiat, at which point I suicided, sassed about it a little in deadchat and left to do something else. When I came back to check on it I'd been booted back to the main screen, and after rejoining out of curiosity was promptly cluwned, at which point I suicided again. In post-round ooc the admin in question made clear that he personally didn't think the shuttle ought to be called, no matter how long the round, just because nothing was happening. I admit the cluwning may have been deserved given the admin sassing I did in deadchat, but the original muting for expressing an opinion, was, I feel, a bit much.
Extra information: At that point some people were resurrected as wraiths, so he might have wanted to do some testing on wraiths and felt this was a good opportunity to do so. Regardless, I feel my point still stands.
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - StormyDragon - 10-21-2014
I was the Head of Personnel that round and performed the initial shuttle call. This was around the fifty minute mark after apprehending, questioning and releasing one traitor attempting to subvert the AI. The traitor in question had disconnected some time after another security officer had cuffed him.
I did a loop around the station checking for damage and called the shuttle assuming that the one antagonist we had caught was the only one, since there was no damage to the station. There was a question as to why it was called and I answered that I was now bored, had there been protests toward the call, I would naturally have performed the recall myself, instead, someone else recalled the shuttle without word, I think I gave it another five minutes of silence before calling it again. The captain and I met up on the bridge, they seemed furious that it was recalled. So we called it again, I found that my shuttle calling privileges had then been revoked at that point.
At some point Volundr had interjected that the shuttle call was inappropriate to which I had responded that on #4 it was not at this late of a stage and that it was doing a favor to the dead. A sentiment shared by a few others. The answer to this was the suggestion that there are other servers to play on.
The end of round was finally reached at the 96 minute mark, where it was revealed that there were three antagonists, one late joining, I had given one the RD permissions as Science Clown, I did not see him much again, nor did I notice any yells about his behavior. There was the man we apprehended, and the third whom I never saw. I do believe that giving the antagonists one hour to prepare and execute their plan is sufficient time.
I will also note that I believe that I have seen bans handed out for shuttles that were recalled after the one hour mark on #4 which serves to color my own perspective on the desire to call it before the hour grows too late.
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - GorillaMyDreams - 10-21-2014
StormyDragon Wrote:I will also note that I believe that I have seen bans handed out for shuttles that were recalled after the one hour mark on #4 which serves to color my own perspective on the desire to call it before the hour grows too late.
Can you cite any examples?
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - StormyDragon - 10-21-2014
GorillaMyDreams Wrote:StormyDragon Wrote:I will also note that I believe that I have seen bans handed out for shuttles that were recalled after the one hour mark on #4 which serves to color my own perspective on the desire to call it before the hour grows too late.
Can you cite any examples?
You know, I looked for one, but I just can't find one. So maybe it is something my mind has conjured up as existing when really it does not. I was merely trying to elaborate on my perceived reasons for the actions I took that round.
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - Crumplehat - 10-21-2014
GorillaMyDreams Wrote:StormyDragon Wrote:I will also note that I believe that I have seen bans handed out for shuttles that were recalled after the one hour mark on #4 which serves to color my own perspective on the desire to call it before the hour grows too late.
Can you cite any examples?
I can't offer examples of bans, but I have seen Admins intervene in various ways in such situations. The most common method is to cause so many disasters at the same time as to make it necessary to call the shuttle.
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - Marquesas - 10-21-2014
I've yelled at a person before for keeping the round going at 80 minutes with most of the population dead. I don't remember anyone handing bans out for this though.
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - Roomba - 10-22-2014
I think admin prerogative on whether to call/recall the shuttle against the wishes of most of the players on is a separate issue. Mostly, I feel that the original muting for expressing an opinion was unwarranted.
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - volundr - 10-23-2014
This incident is indirectly the reason why OOC was turned back on.
In discussing this incident with the other admins, phrases such as "counter-strike in space," and "kill the traitors, rinse, repeat" came up. In general, I think calling the shuttle when the station is completely intact, because a few players have gotten bored is a bad idea. Players don't know if there is still a traitor alive. The kneejerk reaction of calling the shuttle at 50 minutes into a round makes for some really disappointing gameplay for traitors who employ subtlety and trickery to achieve their objectives.
We will be exploring ways to improve the situation.
Here is the relevant part of the log for the round.
Quote:[18:01:46] SAY: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) : ;Tacos at Escape
[18:01:55] SAY: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) : ;Made from genuine Martian
[18:02:15] SAY: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) : ;I braved head-explosion to make these tacos
[18:02:25] SAY: Delicious Rioninnimo (REDACTED) : ;Crew , do you want shuttle recalled?
[18:02:27] SAY: Breggers Breggers (REDACTED) : yes it does
[18:02:32] SAY: Nickolas Weisgarber (REDACTED) : now why is that?
[18:02:34] SAY: Keagan Fiddler (Volundr) : ;yes
[18:02:35] SAY: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) : ;Nah, it's late
[18:02:39] SAY: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) : ;Might as well keep it called
[18:02:47] SAY: Keagan Fiddler (Volundr) : ;what do you mean its late
[18:02:59] SAY: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) : ;It's fifty-six minutes in
[18:03:08] SAY: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) : ;I think everyone's about ready for a shuttle
[18:03:08] SAY: Keagan Fiddler (Volundr) : ;56 minutes into what
[18:03:29] SAY: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) : ;Also I want everyone to escape so they can eat these tacos
[18:03:29] SAY: Lana Smackbash (REDACTED) : ;Past the 50 minute mark you do everyone a favor, and don't recall, you've had long enough to have your fun.
[18:03:37] SAY: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) : ;I spent a lot of time on these tacos
[18:03:40] SAY: Lana Smackbash (REDACTED) : ;The dead will be complaining a lot too.
[18:03:46] ADMIN: Keagan Fiddler (Volundr) sent the Emergency Shuttle back
[18:03:52] SAY: Dexter Grifflez (REDACTED) : ;God damn it.
[18:03:58] SAY: C. Janet Pubster (REDACTED) : ; I'm going to go back and call the shuttle
[18:03:59] SAY: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) : ;Screw you Keagan
[18:04:09] SAY: C. Janet Pubster (REDACTED) : ; And if any of you recall ti I will fucking kill you
[18:04:15] SAY: Dexter Grifflez (REDACTED) : ;EVERYONE BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF KEAGEN.
[18:04:17] SAY: Dexter Grifflez (REDACTED) : ;Growl at him!
[18:04:40] ADMIN: Keagan Fiddler (Volundr) has temporarily muted REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba).
[18:05:16] SAY: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) : ;Why did I get temporarily muted
[18:05:28] ADMIN: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) used adminwho and saw 2 admins.
[18:05:40] AHELP: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) HELP: Why did I get temporarily muted?
[18:05:51] AHELP: Keagan Fiddler (Volundr) PM'd REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba): Because what you're saying is dumb
[18:05:55] SAY: Reset Naywalk (REDACTED) [TRAITOR] : ; so why was the shuttle recalled?
[18:06:02] SAY: C. Janet Pubster (REDACTED) : ; Some jerk recalled it
[18:06:05] SAY: Dexter Grifflez (REDACTED) : ;Because someone wants to get punched.
[18:06:08] SAY: C. Janet Pubster (REDACTED) : ; I'm about to fix it
[18:06:18] SAY: C. Janet Pubster (REDACTED) : ; If anyone tries to stop me they are getting lasered
[18:06:26] SAY: Keagan Fiddler (Volundr) : ;is there any real reason to call the shuttle?
[18:06:27] AHELP: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) HELP: I got muted because I wanted to advertise some tacos?
[18:07:09] SAY: Malachi Russel (REDACTED) : ; Other than people calling it at 60 minutes because that's when more random events can happen, not really.
[18:07:10] ADMIN: Keagan Fiddler (Volundr) sent the Emergency Shuttle back
[18:07:14] SAY: Dexter Grifflez (REDACTED) : ;We're an hour into a round on a server with a 30 person population. And nothing is happening.
[18:07:28] SAY: Dexter Grifflez (REDACTED) : ;I don't even think the engine is on fire.
[18:07:42] SAY: Malachi Russel (REDACTED) : ; What's a round?
[18:07:48] SAY: Dexter Grifflez (REDACTED) : ;Shut up Malachi.
[18:08:31] AHELP: REDACTED (Roomba Rhumba) HELP: I don't necessarily disagree, I'd really just like to know exactly what you're taking offense to, because as far as I can tell I really haven't said anything out of the ordinary.
[18:08:31] ADMIN: Keagan Fiddler (Volundr) sent the Emergency Shuttle back
[18:08:50] SAY: Lana Smackbash (REDACTED) : I guess we are going to have to find the console that is being used for this.
[18:09:12] SAY: C. Janet Pubster (REDACTED) : Unless the AI is recalling since this console is logged on
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - Ines - 10-25-2014
Klayboxx Wrote:volundr Wrote:
Lmao so basically what you're revealing is you were sad your traitor/not traitor round was being cut short so you abused your admin powers to keep the round going, great job!!
How about exploring ways to not use your admin powers for IC events, such as ~CALLING THE SHUTTLE~. It doesn't matter what admins opinions are, it's an IC event, meaning it doesn't need to be administrated. If it's called and people don't like it, they should feel free to try to stop it but otherwise it's fair game. The only time an admin should step in on time related issues is when the round is impossible to end or someone has been consistently recalling the shuttle and it's a good length into the round.
I'm pretty sure banning you wouldn't be an ic event.
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - btek - 10-25-2014
Klayboxx Wrote:bubs Wrote:Go fuck yourself klayboxx, what the hell is that
My opinion, yo. I don't think it should be up to admins what time is the right time for a shuttle to be appropriately called
Pretty much in agreement but let me try to rephrase. Traitors deal with rounds however they want or need to. They shouldn't need admin help to do things. If it's 50 minutes into the round they should have probably have access to a head ID by then. It's a fundamental thing people should learn/have learned to obtain.
On the other side of the discussion: what would constitute an appropriate shuttle call? It's rare where you're going to get half the station crew killed or the station itself destroyed. And i'm sure many people like goon-station being on a new round relatively frequently.
I guess it's not a traitor's obligation to create joyous fun for the crew by killing them and leaving their corpses inside a locker to decay but at the same time it's not the crew or admin's responsibility to cater to them either. That said, I think this idea is dumb and ambiguous in how it works or will be enforced. Goonstation has done fine before and this sudden shift in EVA calling policy seems unwarranted no matter how play 2 win it is. Who here is actually complaining besides traitors who get caught in the first 5 minutes and the admins? If someone is employing subtlety and trickery, 50 minutes is a goddamned long time to do it.
PS: I'm not going to tell you how to do your jobs or anything but what happened to Roomba seemed a bit heavy handed and if that's what is going to happen every time someone calls the shuttle then something is clearly wrong.
Hokie Wrote:I'm pretty sure banning you wouldn't be an ic event.
lol
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - bubs - 10-25-2014
I am mostly referring to the assholey tone of the post. The reason admins frequently make decisions about whether or not a shuttle should be called is because we know more about what's happening than you. It's not good for a traitor's round to get ended prematurely just because he's trying to be stealthy and people think "nothing is happening". Maybe a buncha scientists were off on a z level doing something, who the fuck knows?
That said, I can't speak to what volundr's specific motivations were when he wanted to keep the shuttle called, but I'm making a different assumption. While you have decided to be a giant fucker and start making asshole assumptions about how everything he decided to do was some selfish and cruel act, I'm choosing to think that he had the population's best interest in mind. I'm not sure one way or the other, but there's no need to be such a fuckin prick about it. We try to keep these threads civil, and barging in to someone else's complaint to shit insults all over someone isn't helping much.
Also, I don't really think it was necessary to mute that guy.
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - Crumplehat - 10-25-2014
It used to be that apocalyptic disasters became more frequent at, like, the 60 minute mark of a round. Asteroids, rad storms, black holes, shit like that would become more frequent later in the round. Presumably, this was done to intentionally pressure people into not letting a round drag on any longer than absolutely necessary and give them a legitimate reason to call the shuttle.
I don't know if this is still the case but yeah, calling the shuttle 10 minutes before the general time frame in which bad shit starts happening seems kind of sensible, especially if fuck all else appears to be happening. And he did ASK the crew if they'd be okay with a shuttle call, and he only got one dissenting answer.
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - Klayboxx - 10-25-2014
I apologize for the offense taken at my post, I should not have posted in this thread at all.
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - volundr - 10-27-2014
Roomba, I apologize for muting you. I will communicate better in the future.
Re: Volundr, LLJK 4, 21/10/14 at approx. 10.30 pm, GMT+8 - Roomba - 10-27-2014
Apology accepted. I'm just happy this issue was discussed and looked at.