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+--- Thread: Wizards need some improvement bigtime (/showthread.php?tid=3196)
Wizards need some improvement bigtime - Berrik - 09-21-2014
Currently 99% of all wizards just go with fireball, ice beam, and then one of cluwne or shocking grasp. I think either these need to be made less desireable or the other powers need to be made more useful.
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - Iatots - 09-22-2014
I think this comes from wizard rounds being wizards killing the crew killing more wizards.
Since their objectives are always murder X person times 3, stunning spells are a favourite to tip the combat system in their favour, and the gibbing/permanent handicapping of crew members is just the cherry on the cake.
And what reliable offensive capabilities do they have?
*fireball
*maybe an egun or revolver if they rush the cap/detective
*maybe the shotguns if they rush the bar (and in this case only 8 shots) or if they sacrifice a spell slot for knock. (seriously, armoury lockers and maybe debraining silicons is all it's good for)
IMO wizards need more varied objectives, but I can't come up with something challenging, and sadly I think if someone had it would be in already.
Remember corrupting the station? Why was that even removed?
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - DyssalC - 09-22-2014
I'm going to assume that this is an "open to ideas" sort of thing.
I can think of a few.
Black Hole: Creates a powerful point of suction that draws in all loose objects (including people) with the same power and stun of a dark matter reaction, but with more reach. Doesn't draw in people wearing magic sandals. Without your staff the black hole only sucks in 25% as much as it normally would. Takes a moment to charge before casting.
Summon Life: Creates a random (friendly) mob that can be created by life, like space bears, space yetis, etc. Without your staff it's hostile towards you as well and spawns aggro'd toward you, so it's not good to cast when knocked down. Takes a moment to charge before casting.
(Something about electricity that isn't Shocking Grasp [fukken Ei Nath]): Arcs electricity out of the wizard and onto a maximum of five targets that are within view of the wizard. It can go through walls like APC electricity arcs. Stuns for a short time, causes burns, and has a small chance to cause shock. People with magic sandals aren't targeted. Without your staff it only targets one person, but has full effect. Instant cast.
That's all I got right now.
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - Frank_Stein - 09-22-2014
I kinda feel like fireball should be nerfed slightly. Keep it's stunning effects, but get rid of it's explosive power.
Maybe add another spell for explosions.
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - Sundance - 09-22-2014
Frank_Stein Wrote:I kinda feel like fireball should be nerfed slightly. Keep it's stunning effects, but get rid of it's explosive power.
Maybe add another spell for explosions.
But the stunning power of fireball is from the explosion.
The issue with fireball too is that you're stunned AND on fire AND exploded. It's that triple whammy that makes it so effective. Add that with whatever the wiz will pelt at you afterwards and you've got a clear winner of a spell.
My humble opinion is that fire-ball needs to be nerfed somewhat, and other spells buffed somewhat.
I'll outline it in my next post.
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - mozi - 09-22-2014
annoying thing i noticed on my last wizard round was that the high cooldown on Clarivoyance makes it hard to track your targets, who are naturally running all around. and a lot of times you'd get results like "Aft Primary Hallway" which don't help much at all!
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - Sundance - 09-22-2014
Base Spells: Clairevoyance, MM, Phase
Balanced.
Blind
Should work completely different. You aren't inflicting any permanent eye damage, and the blind doesn't last too long. The issue is that while this should be a quick casting spell when fighting a bunch of people, when you use it, you have to pick from a goddamn list. Have it work by clicking on the player to insta-blind him (obviously will work from a distance). This way you have a quick spell that's actually quick. Balance this by reducing the duration of the blind.
Fireball
I think fireball should set people on fire, explode them, but not stun them, whatsoever. Instead it should send them (or if targeting an object) flying. This way it acts as a explosive repellent, that sends your opponent away but he is still mobile (if he has legs).
Ice-Beam
Balanced.
Warp
Should work exactly like I suggested for blind. That or have an even quicker recharge and when cast will select a random crew member around you to warp
Shockwave
Balanced, but could do a bit more damage from it. Actually, is this still in-game? I remember hearing this was removed due to the lag it may create.
Clown's Revenge
Balanced
Rathen's Secret
Does this still tear off limbs? If so, balanced as far as a gimmick spells goes, but could have a higher chance of blasting off limbs.
Shocking Grasp and Blink
Balanced.
Knock
Could do with a bit more effects, like stunning beepsky and buddys.
Pandemonium
Balanced
Empowerer
I despise this spells because it's stupid. Hulk doesn't have much use when you're busting out of places or fighting, and instant TK is very over-powered. Thankfully not many people abuse it anymore, but it still exists. IMO replace this spell with being able to turn into a werewolf for a short period of time. It's the same concept, but better fleshed out.
Teleport
Balanced
Forcewall
Could randomly create a small prison around people as well as creating a wall around you. The idea for this spell should be creating the widest gap between you, your assailants and your targets.
Animate Dead and Animate Golem
Balanced.
Doppelganger
Balanced, but the issue with the doppelganger is that the doppelganger ai will just run directly into a wall. He could probably be better if he randomly moved everywhere, and would fall down if attacked. Y'know, so it just isn't a double-phase shift spell.
Bull's charge
Again is still this in-game? It's completely useless, as you have to run AT people and it follows you. WHY in gods name, you want to be AWAY from people. Replace it with another enhancement.
Enchantments
Balanced, but it'd be nice if there were 1-2 more.
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - crasscrab - 09-23-2014
wizards are old and stubborn they font wanna change
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - shadowdimentio - 09-23-2014
Sundance Wrote:EmpowererYou're just using it wrong, bro.
I despise this spells because it's stupid. Hulk doesn't have much use when you're busting out of places or fighting, and instant TK is very over-powered. Thankfully not many people abuse it anymore, but it still exists. IMO replace this spell with being able to turn into a werewolf for a short period of time. It's the same concept, but better fleshed out.
Empower is easily the best wizard spell if you know the (not so)secret technique that turns it into a superior version of Shocking Grasp, and that's not even mentioning the stun resistance and TK. Extra bonus points if you also take Shocking Grasp with you and irreparably kill most of the station.
That being said, it's a perfectly balanced wiz spell and shouldn't be changed, at least until the (not so)secret technique is discovered.
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - Sundance - 09-23-2014
shadowdimentio Wrote:Sundance Wrote:EmpowererYou're just using it wrong, bro.
I despise this spells because it's stupid. Hulk doesn't have much use when you're busting out of places or fighting, and instant TK is very over-powered. Thankfully not many people abuse it anymore, but it still exists. IMO replace this spell with being able to turn into a werewolf for a short period of time. It's the same concept, but better fleshed out.
Empower is easily the best wizard spell if you know the (not so)secret technique that turns it into a superior version of Shocking Grasp, and that's not even mentioning the stun resistance and TK. Extra bonus points if you also take Shocking Grasp with you and irreparably kill most of the station.
That being said, it's a perfectly balanced wiz spell and shouldn't be changed, at least until the (not so)secret technique is discovered.
Dude are you talking about the fact that you can shocking grasp someone from a distance? Sameway you can point black someone with lasers from a distance due to the instant (read: Something that you didn't spend an hour working to get) TK?
If that's your idea of balanced, then I dread what you think unbalanced is. Also using the spell like you are using is incredibly lame. Bet you use thermals too.
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - shadowdimentio - 09-23-2014
Sundance Wrote:Dude are you talking about the fact that you can shocking grasp someone from a distance? Sameway you can point black someone with lasers from a distance due to the instant (read: Something that you didn't spend an hour working to get) TK?You can do what now.
If that's your idea of balanced, then I dread what you think unbalanced is. Also using the spell like you are using is incredibly lame. Bet you use thermals too.
Actually no, I didn't know you could do that. But now I do. So thanks for that.
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - Sundance - 09-23-2014
Nobody picks empowerer because it is useful. Nobody wants to be up close fighting when your a wizard because you'll get swarmed, even when you can swat them away. Hulk isn't as "hulky" as people assume, and the escaping capabilities isn't particularly useful when you can phase shift or teleport instead and leave no trace.
There are two people who pick it
1. The type of person who knows TK is shitty and chooses only to use melee with it. These up and close wizards are interesting, you normally see these wizards equipped with a cthulhu staff. It is an incredibly risky affair and one more likely to end in the wizard being fire-extinguished to death.
or
2. People who disregard TK as shitty and choose to abuse the shit out of it (or whatever equally shitty insta-death shocking grasp thing for that matter).
Seen as I hope we're not trying to accommodate the second type of person, changing empowerer to a different type of close combat spell would be interesting. Which is why I suggested being able to turn momentarily turning into a werewolf, as it increases your close combat capabilities. The issue is that becoming a werewolf removes your clothing, what could happen instead with this transformation is that the wizard clothing disappears momentarily and when you run out of werewolf power, re-appears.
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - Frank_Stein - 09-23-2014
Speaking of Force Wall, maybe that should be changed too. Make it so you can target floor tiles. That way, the wizard could cast it near him as a shield, or far away to act as a blockade.
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - LinkDaWolf - 09-23-2014
shadowdimentio Wrote:Sundance Wrote:Dude are you talking about the fact that you can shocking grasp someone from a distance? Sameway you can point black someone with lasers from a distance due to the instant (read: Something that you didn't spend an hour working to get) TK?You can do what now.
If that's your idea of balanced, then I dread what you think unbalanced is. Also using the spell like you are using is incredibly lame. Bet you use thermals too.
Actually no, I didn't know you could do that. But now I do. So thanks for that.
if you abuse that you are literally the worst kind of person
anyway i support empower being changed 100%. ive been rooting for this ever since thermal+decent weapon+hide somewhere and attack people who cant see/find you wizards were the only kind of wiz people played. and knowing about this shocking grasp thing, uh, yeah.
the werewolf idea is really neat. plus, it adds a way for werewolves to actually be seen around other than admin gimmicks. i guess it may be too strong, but it's also one of those things that's really easy to balance i think.
maybe empower could also randomly give you good/neutral genetics stuff? suddenly dwarfy shouting wizards with random little powers? though this would also be easily abused cause some of the genetics stuff is pretty good iirc and having like twenty powers from it at once could be bad lmao
Re: Wizards need some improvement bigtime - Frank_Stein - 09-23-2014
Make empower spawn a set of wizard items for wizards that get their shit stolen and didn't think to bring/hide extras?