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+--- Thread: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) (/showthread.php?tid=2778)
Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - Silvercloud29 - 07-07-2014
Greetings everyone. I been playing on the goon server for almost a year now. Some people know me but I still feel new compared to quite a few others in the community. Anyway, getting to the point...
When I am playing for a serious round. Not messing around trying to make uqill/erebite slag shovels, carrying an arsenal of weapons on me to hunt down a changeling, etc. I am at mining. The surprising thing is I actually mine at mining, and I like mining. You get access to some great equipment that you spend some time to gather the materials to make. It's very satisfying coming in the station 30 min in or so, completely blast proof and running around like sonic and knowing that you feed the QMs pockets full of cash while doing.
Getting to the point. Initially the Asteroid field randomization changes that happened about a month or so a go bummed me out. Not due to the fact the fields were now random, it's was more due to the fact it looked horrible and out of control. Lucky that was "mostly" fixed It still has that problem but it's a lot more controlled now. The new problem is sometimes finding particular ores. Claratine (I am sure that's how it's spelt) and Borhum seem to be a lot rarer now. This could be more of a balance thing though but it still makes the job harder. Viscous Lumps have 0 use at all, and the sprite matches plasmastone a bit (This may have been changed in the past 2 or 3 days though since I heard there was a sprite update).
That just one concern. With all the changes from that I was excited for this new Ore Magnet we got that was station side. At first I thought it was there just for testing, and experimented with it. It was a great way to look for ores you needed if the mining z-level lacked any. Then that one change came.... The move to mining station side.... It honestly didn't really bode to well with me in the first place. We just pretty much made the mining Z-level redundant and unneeded in one update. No one spawns there anymore, and now miners are faced with the fact they start in the hell hole everyone else does. With reduced numbers to boot. It was already bad enough that maybe 2 people of the 6 starting miners we're actually going to mine and the others just stole space suits and fucked off to get killed by whatever, but now we aren't separated by the shuttle anymore from the psychopaths. You can't even get on the mining shuttle anymore without a spacesuit on, so if I spawn as a CE and wanted to manage QM and mining I need to find a spacesuit first to even get on the shuttle. Which all 3 suits are normally missing from "new" mining anyway on normally 5 min in.
Overall, mining is still an important role for the station. It's one of the good honest hardworking money makers for the QM. I just don't think out of the little space content we have for the pods that we should phase out the mining outpost also. So here is my proposed changes
Mining change ideas
[list=6][*]Remove station-side mining (So people aren't trying to walk in and kill miners and give easy access to stealing better spacesuits)[*]Move ore magnet to the mining outpost (Most likely to the right side of the base)[*]Add 1 more job slot to make it a even 4 mining jobs.[*]Make certain asteroids in the mining Z-level spawn with a set pool of 3 randomized ores to make it a little easier to find needed materials. (Like Bohrum)[*]Re-add erebite back into the fields. (This one I am not sure if erebite is just extremely rare or you guys accidentally pulled it out of the spawn lists. I honestly haven't seen any drop since the randomization update.)[*]Give the viscous lump's Asteroid form different a sprite (Maybe something that looks like organic rock) and give it a use (It has some nice properties that could be used for the additive tank on the arc smelter)[/list]
So for a TLDR. I feel station side mining kills the mining department, makes miners lazy, easier to kill, stuff stolen easier, and makes the mining Z-level completely pointless to use to the already limited space exploring content we have. And the asteroid randomization still kind of sucks and needs some work and suggested a list of changes to fix some the problem.
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - Silvercloud29 - 07-07-2014
I noticed some typos and grammar errors after posting, and I cannot find the edit button on my first post to fix it... Sorry for any grammar errors.
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - Zamujasa - 07-07-2014
I think it'd work a lot better if the mining Z-level had a lot more of the more "rare" ores (erebite, telecrystals, etc); the mineral magnet right now seems to mostly pull in more basic ores.
That way you'd still have a good reason to go to that Z-level (better ores, more varied mining) while keeping the risk involved with going there (fermids, drones, etc).
As for spawning on the station instead of the Mining level, it's actually for the best, honestly. Half the time you spawn on the Mining level, your only other miner is a changeling/traitor who takes the seclusion and privacy to immediately murder you and end your round, and the chances of your body being found are basically nil. Spawning on the station gives you a little bit of protection just from the lack of privacy.
The magnet also helps to coordinate mining efforts, since there's a smaller, localized area to work in. Most jobs generally have small offices or sections; Mining gets its own whole Z-level. With the magnet, it's more likely that people will team up and cooperate to mine, accomplishing more, faster.
Silverbutt29 Wrote:I noticed some typos and grammar errors after posting, and I cannot find the edit button on my first post to fix it... Sorry for any grammar errors.There is no edit button, so don't worry, you aren't missing anything.
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - Silvercloud29 - 07-07-2014
Zamujasa Wrote:Mining gets its own whole Z-level.
Not really the whole Z-level but a good chunk of it. Mechanics has their own station on that Z-level also.
Honestly it feels like the admins are trying to condense mining to just a smaller space, and this is the start of doing that.
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - david2222121 - 07-07-2014
The mechanics station there, the abandoned ISS station, and the russian shuttle aren't supposed to be areas for those jobs to actually work at. They're more to make space explorers lives' easier, as well as give antagonists and turbonerds a place to quietly work their magic without getting brained by the people actually doing those jobs.
That said, I like Zamujasa's idea. Leaving the mining magnet station-side while tweaking the asteroids it pulls in to only provide the basic minerals is great, because it would give more options to the people who would need those minerals, ie roboticists, people doing pod gimmicks, QMs, and also make the ABC-Us more viable because you can actually get all the materials you need to make an Owlry next to escape.
However, if you want to fuel your exploding, teleporting gold shovel rampages, you need to actually hop in a pod and risk the asteroid field. I'd suggest maybe also adding more drones/hazards there as well, just to make it a bit more "fun" to boot.
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - BlakeJohnson - 07-07-2014
Actually, the ISS and the ruskie ship are on a seperate Z-Level with Hemera VII and a bunch of other random space junk
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - Silvercloud29 - 07-08-2014
You know, that isn't a bad idea for the ore Mag to help gather more common materials but the mining Z-level has more uncommon stuff spawning in it.
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - pizzatiger - 07-08-2014
I am pretty sure the point of the mining magnet was to free up a new Z-level for Tele-adventures/ New space zone with fun stuff
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - Erev - 07-08-2014
I'm actually a fan of Mining being on the station proper. I'm not saying that we shouldn't hide some dense veins of rare ore elsewhere, but the tractor mechanic really does help the game I think. The location currently makes it sort of like another Botany where one can either be slaughtered without anyone ever noticing or without ever being bothered. There may be a bit more murder there than botany due to the space suits, but I also think a lot of it has to do simply with the fact that it's a new area. All in all I think it is a nice upgrade to the map.
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - david2222121 - 07-08-2014
If we're talking about space constraints, then it shouldn't be a problem to lump the ISS, russian derelict, bee ship and Hemera and whatnot all into the same z level as the diner and old mining. Or vice versa, really. From what I recall from the times I got lost in the faint signal z level, there's plenty of open space between the different areas.
So toss all the different places into one z level, spread them out a bit(or not, depending on how the random generation of asteroids would work, iunno), and fill the empty gaps with delicious, ore-laden asteroids and angry, murderous drones. Then hey-blammo, you gots yourself a whole-nother z level to fill with even more telescience crap.
For the record I just pulled all of this out of my ass, it might not even work, who knows. I sure don't.
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - Marquesas - 07-08-2014
Silvercloud29 Wrote:Zamujasa Wrote:Mining gets its own whole Z-level.
Not really the whole Z-level but a good chunk of it. Mechanics has their own station on that Z-level also.
Honestly it feels like the admins are trying to condense mining to just a smaller space, and this is the start of doing that.
Yes. They are. And it's justified.
Miners spent most of their time in isolation on their own little Z-levels. This has a seriously negative effect on its desirability - I'd rather not play miner to be completely uninvolved in the game and possibly be eaten by a changeling without any remote hope of help.
The mining Z will be recycled for more fun stuff. Get over it.
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - Silvercloud29 - 07-09-2014
Marquesas Wrote:Yes. They are. And it's justified.
Miners spent most of their time in isolation on their own little Z-levels. This has a seriously negative effect on its desirability - I'd rather not play miner to be completely uninvolved in the game and possibly be eaten by a changeling without any remote hope of help.
The mining Z will be recycled for more fun stuff. Get over it.
Whoa man, relax. We are having a nice discussion here. Since I don't know the limitations of byond, is there a limit of how many z-levels there can be? Is the current server already at that limit and that's the reason why we don't have any more space areas to explore?
If that's not the case I would support a slightly more dangerous mining z-level with with better access to rare ores. The danger of it is what should turn you away though. Maybe add some HK drones around
Also, I thought it would be funny if the ore mag was e-maggable and it has the chance of dragging in random things, like space debris with dangerous rouge NPC droids to dragging in a Y-Drone that will attack the station. (Extremly rare though)
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - Anticheese - 07-09-2014
Mining is infinitely more fun now that you can do your job right next to the station.
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - Marquesas - 07-10-2014
Silvercloud29 Wrote:Marquesas Wrote:Yes. They are. And it's justified.
Miners spent most of their time in isolation on their own little Z-levels. This has a seriously negative effect on its desirability - I'd rather not play miner to be completely uninvolved in the game and possibly be eaten by a changeling without any remote hope of help.
The mining Z will be recycled for more fun stuff. Get over it.
Whoa man, relax. We are having a nice discussion here. Since I don't know the limitations of byond, is there a limit of how many z-levels there can be? Is the current server already at that limit and that's the reason why we don't have any more space areas to explore?
If that's not the case I would support a slightly more dangerous mining z-level with with better access to rare ores. The danger of it is what should turn you away though. Maybe add some HK drones around
Also, I thought it would be funny if the ore mag was e-maggable and it has the chance of dragging in random things, like space debris with dangerous rouge NPC droids to dragging in a Y-Drone that will attack the station. (Extremly rare though)
You can have unlimited Z-levels, but due to the complexity of the engine (every tile being processed for at least SOMETHING every tick), a Z-level was removed last year which significantly improved performance and nobody is about to reintroduce it.
The whole drag in dangerous shit thing is planned.
Re: Concerns with Mining (Both the department and Z-level) - Crumplehat - 07-10-2014
Marquesas Wrote:Miners spent most of their time in isolation on their own little Z-levels. This has a seriously negative effect on its desirability - I'd rather not play miner to be completely uninvolved in the game
But that's at least half the reason I play miner.
I've been around since before ore was even a thing, and Mining has always been off-station; it's always had its own z-level. If you want a job that gets you away from all the lunatics on the station, mining's your best chance. Sure there's the 10-20% chance of a changeling, but it's a damn sight less likely than your chances of getting murdered on-station. There's also less chance of your job being rendered completely impossible to do, because you don't rely on a single piece of equipment to allow you to do anything at all.
That's my biggest concern here. The move of the magnet to the station, and presumably its reassignment as the primary mining method, would make it a target, collateral or otherwise. One bomb hits that bastard and no more mining. It's also presumably a complex system, so destroying either the console or the machine would almost assuredly render it useless, so the few people who actually enjoy mining would have nothing left to do but fuck around beating up assistants like the bitter hermit sociopaths they are.
The vagabond nature of mining always seemed to bond miners together in a weird way. You knew if you had more than one person hanging around and actually working, you could more or less trust them. There's a weird sort of unspoken rule among most (MOST) miners that if one of them is a traitor or something, they'll generally leave the other miners alone, since they know those guys likely aren't going to do shit to stop them as long as they're left alone; they just don't care. Changelings are an issue but half the time I get killed by a ling on station I end up spaced before anyone can help anyway - at least if I'm in space I can maneuver, maybe lead it into a drone.
Miners can also team up for space adventures more easily than other jobs, and they can even be useful about it by sending souvenirs back. Telesci made a good chunk of that irrelevant, but the only reason for that is the fact that maps exist now so people don't need to go out and find the shit themselves anymore. There's still stuff you can't get to with telesci though.
I just don't know how I feel about this shift; Mining's always been one of my favorite jobs because I can be helpful to the station without actually having to go deal with the people on it.