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A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Printable Version

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A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Ali0en - 02-20-2014

Okay prepare for a LOOONG NERD WRITE UP

I'm in EMT schooling right now and it irks the fuck out of me how CPR is just ventilation's and no compressions, more so because of the medical changes with heart attacks, cardiac arrest, etc. Ventilation's are only used as often as they are now (though 1 breath every 5 seconds instead of the current 7) when the patient is not breathing on their own OR not breathing enough. Compressions are the prime CPR component now for a few reasons.

A) When you do a compression, you are creating a suction by increasing and decreasing blood pressure. Pushing down on the chest causes not just the blood to pump but for the patient to exhale, while letting go causes the patient to draw in a little air
B) Keeping the blood flowing like this means that the body is getting some oxygen to all components
C) Adding 2 breaths in per 30 compressions, which is standard for adults, makes it even more effective as blood is flowing with oxygen

So, lets switch the current CPR (breathing) to compressions. If the patient is wearing an on oxygen mask, it should help them more as they are getting more oxygen. Also adding a bag mask to pump in air with that would be neat.

Second, cardiac arrest where the heart has stopped and they have no pulse. The average adult can only be in this for a maximum of 4 to 6 minutes. If it's longer than that then they will likely have brain damage. So, if someone is in the YOUR HEART HAS STOPPED phase for more than 4 minutes, let them take brain damage.

Third, old people tend to have brittle rib bones, leading to them cracking when given compressions. So, have a chance for people with the age set over 70 to have a chance of ribs breaking during CPR. It could cause no damage as to not keep people from doing CPR on them but it would make a cool OH SHIT moment.

Fourth, the defibrillator. Right now you can zap any person in crit with it, regardless of their actual problems. It's really only used when the heart is in weird rhythm patterns where all parts that SHOULD be working in tempo are all firing at once, thus no blood is pumping. What the defib does is issue a charge to STOP the heart with the idea that it will pick its normal beating pace back up, basically, resetting the heart. So, if a players heart has stopped or it is showing a weird pace, the defib should be used as a "cure". Also splashing a liquid on someone and then defibbing them should cause burn damage.

Fifth and final piece for now, drugs. I can't recall any of the drugs in right now causing a lot of oxygen damage, but drug overdoses do cause the lungs to close, though this is mainly seen in opiate type drugs. So, have drugs do oxygen damage (if they don't right now I can't remember).

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Sundance - 02-20-2014

Ok so for the first point, if the are rigged up to an oxygen flow such as an oxytank, then cpr/ i.e: Pushing down on the chest, should work, if they are wearing an mask and are not rigged, then it would require the mask to be off to preform cpr? Is that it? That sounds reasonable and logical.

The braindamage/heart stop is also good, but go easy on the % of brain damage, I can imagine the combination of the two would be pretty impossible to recover from.

I also thought that defib was only for curing heart ailments, hitting someone whilst in crit only shocks them, but doesn't actually cure them of much unless they are in heart failure.
It would be neat to add in irregular heartbeats however, maybe do a check for when someone on stimulants (coffee, cigs, meth) and is heavily damaged, that afterwards they have a % chance of getting an ailment of irregular heartbeat? Probably could be something early cloners get too?

Drugs overdoses should do oxygen damage sure.

Also, I don't know about the age thing, I don't like having the idea of players having advantages over another in that way at the start of the round. If it's just a visual thing, I don't see why not..

Also I'd like to see some form of decompression sickness added in, something new ailment that doctors can treat.
Quote:I know alot of other servers have pressure included in code, similar to cold or oxygen.
Instead of this, I think it'd be cool if we could contract an ailment from standing on a space tile too long if ones not wearing proper suits, that's related to pressure damage... instead of just simply burning.
Even more interesting is pressure damage in space isn't as much as one would think, and you certainly wouldn't get physically damaged like you do in other servers.
An intresting read:
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_a ... 70603.html
http://space.about.com/cs/basics/a/bodyvacuum1.htm
"He later said that his last conscious memory was of the water on his tongue beginning to boil."

The ailment would be decompression sickness. If you were 100, and you stood on a space tile, then the time it would take to reach orangered would be the time it kicks in. The indication that you contracted decompression sickness is as so:
The blood on your tongue feels like it is boiling
The symptoms would be joint pains. How this would be implemented in the game would be switching from run to walk randomly:
Your joints ache!
Also vomiting from the vertigo. Because everyone likes vomit.
So while not detrimental to your life, it could be a nuisance. The cure for this, (and in real life) would be oxygen treatment. So Perfluorocarbon? Another use for the stronger oxygenating drug is good right?
Just something to acknowledge pressure while not being totally obnoxious, and gives medical doctors something to work with as space exposure is quite common.


Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Ali0en - 02-20-2014

First point would eliminate all air based CPR and instead switch the text to compressions. Oxygen pump bags could be added and would heal oxygen loss.

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Amuys - 02-20-2014

"Heart attack"
EVIL PHRASE.

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Amuys - 02-20-2014

So, uh King Lt or Comibtube?

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Morrigi - 02-26-2014

Sounds like a pretty good improvement to the medical system.

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - david2222121 - 02-28-2014

I'm wondering if we should maybe have two different forms of "CPR" in the game, depending on what you're targeting. If you target the chest, you start doing the chest compressions, which have a chance to fix heart problems(or cause some if they don't have one), and also do a little to heal suffocation damage. You don't need to take their mask off, though maybe their exterior suits would get in the way.

If you target their head, then you're just doing the rescue breathing, and would of course need to take anything like a gas mask or what-have-you off. Maybe the inflatable bag can be used if someone has an oxygen mask on, and can be described as you hooking it up to their mask?

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Kovirii - 03-05-2014

Ali0en Wrote:
So, lets switch the current CPR (breathing) to compressions. If the patient is wearing an on oxygen mask, it should help them more as they are getting more oxygen. Also adding a bag mask to pump in air with that would be neat.

Second, cardiac arrest where the heart has stopped and they have no pulse. The average adult can only be in this for a maximum of 4 to 6 minutes. If it's longer than that then they will likely have brain damage. So, if someone is in the YOUR HEART HAS STOPPED phase for more than 4 minutes, let them take brain damage.
I'm not sure how much realism there is supposed to be in space. How different is this from what currently happens?

Ali0en Wrote:Third, old people tend to have brittle rib bones, leading to them cracking when given compressions. So, have a chance for people with the age set over 70 to have a chance of ribs breaking during CPR. It could cause no damage as to not keep people from doing CPR on them but it would make a cool OH SHIT moment.
If you aren't breaking ribs, you aren't doing it right.

Ali0en Wrote:Fourth, the defibrillator. Right now you can zap any person in crit with it, regardless of their actual problems.
It doesn't remove cardiac arrest 100% of the time, does it?

Ali0en Wrote:Fifth and final piece for now, drugs. I can't recall any of the drugs in right now causing a lot of oxygen damage, but drug overdoses do cause the lungs to close, though this is mainly seen in opiate type drugs. So, have drugs do oxygen damage (if they don't right now I can't remember).
I would assume that paralytics such as Pancuronium do oxygen damage?

Amuys Wrote:So, uh King Lt or Comibtube?
What about i-gels?

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Klayboxx - 03-06-2014

Fun fact: You can just spam CPR, it doesn't matter if you do it more than every 7 seconds. I'm pretty sure that is just flavor text because afaik it keeps them alive better if you spam it.

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - BlackPhoenix - 03-06-2014

Klayboxx Wrote:Fun fact: You can just spam CPR, it doesn't matter if you do it more than every 7 seconds. I'm pretty sure that is just flavor text because afaik it keeps them alive better if you spam it.
It says to do it "AT LEAST EVERY 7 SECONDS" in big caps...meaning that at minimum that's needed.

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Klayboxx - 03-06-2014

BlackPhoenix Wrote:
Klayboxx Wrote:Fun fact: You can just spam CPR, it doesn't matter if you do it more than every 7 seconds. I'm pretty sure that is just flavor text because afaik it keeps them alive better if you spam it.
It says to do it "AT LEAST EVERY 7 SECONDS" in big caps...meaning that at minimum that's needed.

Oh right. Still, I see people standing by people waiting seven seconds before applying CPR again sometimes.

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - BlackPhoenix - 03-06-2014

Klayboxx Wrote:
BlackPhoenix Wrote:
Klayboxx Wrote:Fun fact: You can just spam CPR, it doesn't matter if you do it more than every 7 seconds. I'm pretty sure that is just flavor text because afaik it keeps them alive better if you spam it.
It says to do it "AT LEAST EVERY 7 SECONDS" in big caps...meaning that at minimum that's needed.

Oh right. Still, I see people standing by people waiting seven seconds before applying CPR again sometimes.
It's in big ol' capital letters, if they can't read it when it's made that plain, it's a shame but I don't think there's a fix for it.

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Amuys - 03-07-2014

You're not supposed to break ribs, but you're supposed to make cartilage pop. A new thing that came out for 2015's CPR.

Re: A change to the CPR system (and various medical things) - Kovirii - 03-07-2014

Amuys Wrote:You're not supposed to break ribs, but you're supposed to make cartilage pop. A new thing that came out for 2015's CPR.
I was joking that breaking ribs is a sign of effective compressions, seeing as the ribs are there to resist what you are doing.