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+--- Thread: Increase Income from Artifacts (/showthread.php?tid=22215)
Increase Income from Artifacts - Solenoid - 01-21-2024
TL;DR Artifacts don't sell for much, especially compared to how much they can cost from Vuldarak. Also, just having selling artifacts be more viable could make more scientists sell their extra artifacts other than directly harmful ones and create a new revenue stream for Cargo.
Hi all,
I don't play artsci much, but it's in part because I feel like artifact research is nearly pointless in terms of the "make money for Cargo" side. Of course, it's always fun to get the teleporter wands, artifact blasters, and plant waterers- but for all the cool artifacts there are the lights, the damage auras, and the emote forcers. Of course, these often get sent to cargo and shipped out for... TWO HUNDRED CREDITS!?
I understand that there has to be some balance for Cargo's budget, but I feel like post Cargo rework, the value of artifacts has really not been there. If I'm buying artsci 4 artifacts for 8800 credits, and can only get 1200 back after selling them all correctly identified, I feel like it's sort of a pointless purchase from a Cargo perspective.
I would like to propose increasing the value of artifacts so that you can at least make money back on them if you buy them from Vuldarak(ie. 2500+ credits for every artifact). Maybe that's too high, but I'm sure some rich person somewhere would buy a fleshy blob lamp, or some archvillain would need a humming monolith damage aura! Plus, it'd be a good way to just increase interdepartmental cooperation by making scientists feel like their time is worthwhile. They see that they're helping the station make money and not just contributing pocket change to the budget with every artifact they sell. This may also make some scientists sell artifacts more often, which would increase Cargo and Science's interaction and make another revenue stream for Cargo.
Ultimately, I'd just like to see artifacts feel worthwhile to research and sell via Cargo by increasing their value. It'd make it feel more worthwhile to Science and would make Cargo more eager to interact with Science since they can actually produce a good amount of money for them. I just wanted to gather community feedback on this and see whether others feel the same.
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - Kotlol - 01-21-2024
Well those artifacts are limited and NOT ALWAYS THERE. So there is no point to this.
Let alone if you sells x amount of artifacts you get a restock. It's not enough to trigger another restock....
Since mining can provide too.
Basically.. some days artsci is boring, other times you have too much artifacts when rad storms hit the station.
If anything that needs to be buffed... for each 100% correct artifact you trigger the restock faster. And restocks will happen REGARDLESS over a certain period of time.
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - Solenoid - 01-21-2024
(01-21-2024, 11:25 AM)Kotlol Wrote: Well those artifacts are limited and NOT ALWAYS THERE. So there is no point to this.
Let alone if you sells x amount of artifacts you get a restock. It's not enough to trigger another restock....
Since mining can provide too.
Basically.. some days artsci is boring, other times you have too much artifacts when rad storms hit the station.
If anything that needs to be buffed... for each 100% correct artifact you trigger the restock faster. And restocks will happen REGARDLESS over a certain period of time.
Of course the artifacts that Vuldarak sells are not always there, I'm well aware of that. Also, I understand the concept of restocks. I just think that increasing the value of the artifacts would just make sense in general- I used the Vuldarak example to show how ridiculously low the prices could get and to show why QMs may not value working with artsci in its current state. I'd prefer if artsci could work as a supplement to a cargo budget like mining currently is in the absence of a mining team since in my time on 4, there've been many shifts without any sort of mining team where I just have to pray for good requisition RNG as the QM.
I agree with the restock points you made though, and would like to see some more regular form of restocking for the artsci folks(maybe mail crates could come with some artifacts inside?), regardless of whether their value is increased or not. Also, having some way to see the restocking progress would be good for the QM, to let science know how many more artifacts they'd have to export to get new ones.
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - Kotlol - 01-22-2024
Exactly. But there are "other ways" to get artifacts outside of mining and cargo (depends on the station)
Most stations, you can get artifacts from inside the maintance shafts and maintance rooms. While you don't have access, mr. staffy mcstafferson could do it for you.
On space stations, you can go to the derelict station and nab 3 more artifacts there. Most science stations have an own pod and docking station so those are free.
There might even be a few artifacts in the debris field or mining field too.
On Oshan, there are artifact littered around the station level. Wich is why you only need a sub to grab em or use an O2 mask with supply and walk around.
And then there is everyone's favorite Acid covered station... where most artifacts that are extra are located in the warrens, wich everyone has access to.
But... going anywhere else to look outside is a difficult and risky task.. and with no subs... you litterly are at the mercy of incoming artifacts.
Also on the restock point idea.. I don't mean RESTOCK POINTS, more like... a restock timer and it lowers depending on how correct each artifact research is.
So let's say 5 minutes is a restock. 100% takes off 1 and a half minute. 0% does nothing. So even if you get like 33% correct you still get rid of 35 seconds.
Of course rad storms throw a big wrench in this system, but.. I think it would be better to have this kinda system. Now I don't say 5 mins.. I am not the best in game balance.. but maybe 10 min intervals?
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - zjdtmkhzt - 01-22-2024
I believe the money gotten from artifacts was lowered like 4 months ago by about a factor of 4 in an economy rework, but said rework also lowered the prices on many other things, so maybe that is why the numbers may seem a bit lower than they are in practice now, even though the purchasing power didn't change as much.
As for resupply, right now it is tied to the artifacts you send out. I think this makes sense because then you get more if someone is doing artsci, but in rounds where no one is there isn't just a large amount of artifacts slowly piling up.
(This happens to a lesser extent due to random events already, but not as much except when there is a radstorm.)
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - CalliopeSoups - 01-22-2024
Yeah I'd like this. I've sold perfect condition, correctly labelled bombs recently and only gotten a couple hundred for them. They don't need to sell for tons but the lower end of prices they can sell for needs raising a bit.
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - Lord_earthfire - 01-22-2024
A higher selling price and/or a buff to the resupply crate spawn rate would be certainly appreciated.
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - zjdtmkhzt - 01-22-2024
in the interest of clarity, this is what i believe the current artifact selling prices are (for fully analyzed ones):
![[Image: aZPZpLs.png]](https://i.imgur.com/aZPZpLs.png)
Artifact prices are based on their rarity, so saying "bombs" don't sell for much isn't a very strong statement, because bomb can range all the way from Tier 4 (Black Hole, Transmutation, Devastating Explosive Bombs), over Tier 3 (Explosive Bombs), to Tier 2 (Chemical Bombs). Chemical bombs just aren't very rare, thus they do not sell for much.
(Tier 0 artifacts here are artifacts which do not naturally occur, like small energy cells.)
A random artifact from Vurdalak would cost about 1200 - 3000 credits.
As seen in the table, the pricing seems a bit heavily loaded towards Tier 3 and 4 artifacts, maybe the formula should be flattened out a bit if people are consistently disappointed when selling lower tier artifacts.
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - Solenoid - 01-22-2024
(01-22-2024, 02:29 PM)zjdtmkhzt Wrote: in the interest of clarity, this is what i believe the current artifact selling prices are (for fully analyzed ones):
Artifact prices are based on their rarity, so saying "bombs" don't sell for much isn't a very strong statement, because bomb can range all the way from Tier 4 (Black Hole, Transmutation, Devastating Explosive Bombs), over Tier 3 (Explosive Bombs), to Tier 2 (Chemical Bombs). Chemical bombs just aren't very rare, thus they do not sell for much.
(Tier 0 artifacts here are artifacts which do not naturally occur, like small energy cells.)
A random artifact from Vurdalak would cost about 1200 - 3000 credits.
As seen in the table, the pricing seems a bit heavily loaded towards Tier 3 and 4 artifacts, maybe the formula should be flattened out a bit if people are consistently disappointed when selling lower tier artifacts.
Thank you for providing the actual numbers! Sorry for my generally vague original post, I didn't have access to the data readily and was more interested in just putting my ideas out in a thread than arguing with any sort of concrete numbers.
I do think shifting the prices up a bit for lower tiers would possibly work in reducing the sort of disappointment factor of selling something fully correctly identified for like 200 credits, but I would also like to hear more community feedback, what I've heard so far has definitely added to my thoughts on the whole argument though and helped me gauge community opinions
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - TDHooligan - 01-23-2024
im surprised rarity is such a big indicator of prices given afaik folk have 0 control over the rarity they get. should artlab's payout as a job really be such a gamble?
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - zjdtmkhzt - 01-23-2024
(01-23-2024, 06:23 AM)TDHooligan Wrote: im surprised rarity is such a big indicator of prices given afaik folk have 0 control over the rarity they get. should artlab's payout as a job really be such a gamble?
Well the artifacts they get are influenced by rarity, due to how probability works, so it kind of averages out. 🤔
I think the main payoff of artlab should be the artifacts themselves, not the cash you get for selling some of them.
The main issue here is people being disappointed by their artifact sales since they have no idea which artifacts are rarer than others, that's why it may be good to make more common artifacts give more money and balance it out by maybe making higher tiers give a little less. (People could also use the appraiser tool. Do artlabs get one of those these days?)
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - Kotlol - 01-23-2024
In my opinion you guys are just discussing things with luck upon luck upon luck.
I don't mind artsci being luck based but... I do mind if it becomes a crapshoot to get resupplies.
We are now in the position of:
- Is the artifacts you start with, rare enough to get cargo to buy relics.
- Is cargo gonna listen or have the money needed
- Is the trader there
And even then... the resupply isnt high for someone like me that can burn through relics within 5 minutes. So if I get 5 drops of not enough money....you guessed it. I am reliant on other departments. WICH IS GOOD!! But... those department have to get LUCKY TOO. WICH IS BAD!!
And that's the biggest problem with artsci. It's LUCK if more artifacts spawn through your minimal available selection. A rad storm will provide you with plenty of artifacts though wich is amazing! But... those aren't every shift.
The trader with relics is mostly there, but sometimes not and it's tied to if Cargo gets enough money from your artifacts or money to spare to buy em.
Mining can find relics too but.. they gotta be lucky to encounter one while digging and willing to send it to you.
Wich is why I want a system to assures artifacts are coming in regardless. Since it remove the most annoying luck factor of all....
Remember that skill in your job should NOT put you out of work because you were UNLUCKY with getting supplies.
It should always be able to be circumvented with risk/reward.. and artsci.. is 100% a luck job where the only skill is figuring out fast what the artifact is, wich by luck can give you not a lot of money... wich means your skill is undermined by luck... and thats fucking awful.
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - Solenoid - 01-23-2024
(01-23-2024, 09:29 AM)zjdtmkhzt Wrote:(01-23-2024, 06:23 AM)TDHooligan Wrote: im surprised rarity is such a big indicator of prices given afaik folk have 0 control over the rarity they get. should artlab's payout as a job really be such a gamble?
Well the artifacts they get are influenced by rarity, due to how probability works, so it kind of averages out. 🤔
I think the main payoff of artlab should be the artifacts themselves, not the cash you get for selling some of them.
The main issue here is people being disappointed by their artifact sales since they have no idea which artifacts are rarer than others, that's why it may be good to make more common artifacts give more money and balance it out by maybe making higher tiers give a little less. (People could also use the appraiser tool. Do artlabs get one of those these days?)
I can say that generally in my experience, if not always, artlabs do not get a cargo appraiser(afaik). I'm also sure how it would work on artifacts, given that the payout is based on accuracy(could players just scan with various combinations of things on the artifact identification form to find out how correct they are? or would it give the value for 0% accuracy regardless of what's on the form??). I'll give it some in-game testing today and see if an appraiser would work for stuff like that.
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - Kotlol - 01-23-2024
(01-23-2024, 11:28 AM)Solenoid Wrote: I can say that generally in my experience, if not always, artlabs do not get a cargo appraiser(afaik). I'm also sure how it would work on artifacts, given that the payout is based on accuracy(could players just scan with various combinations of things on the artifact identification form to find out how correct they are? or would it give the value for 0% accuracy regardless of what's on the form??). I'll give it some in-game testing today and see if an appraiser would work for stuff like that.
Well appraising is nice, what if it has a low value? The value doesn't change since Artifacts do not swing in value like most other things.
All it does make you realize how much worth the sale is gonna be.
If art sci has a way of IMPROVING the score.. then suddenly the skill of adding value is added. Wich makes it more fun to do.
Why can't we tweak artifacts with risk of dieing? But that would be a lot ot add.
RE: Increase Income from Artifacts - zjdtmkhzt - 01-23-2024
(01-23-2024, 11:28 AM)Solenoid Wrote:I coded it, it gives the base value assuming the filled out sticker you put on is 100% accurate.(01-23-2024, 09:29 AM)zjdtmkhzt Wrote:(01-23-2024, 06:23 AM)TDHooligan Wrote: im surprised rarity is such a big indicator of prices given afaik folk have 0 control over the rarity they get. should artlab's payout as a job really be such a gamble?
Well the artifacts they get are influenced by rarity, due to how probability works, so it kind of averages out. 🤔
I think the main payoff of artlab should be the artifacts themselves, not the cash you get for selling some of them.
The main issue here is people being disappointed by their artifact sales since they have no idea which artifacts are rarer than others, that's why it may be good to make more common artifacts give more money and balance it out by maybe making higher tiers give a little less. (People could also use the appraiser tool. Do artlabs get one of those these days?)
I can say that generally in my experience, if not always, artlabs do not get a cargo appraiser(afaik). I'm also sure how it would work on artifacts, given that the payout is based on accuracy(could players just scan with various combinations of things on the artifact identification form to find out how correct they are? or would it give the value for 0% accuracy regardless of what's on the form??). I'll give it some in-game testing today and see if an appraiser would work for stuff like that.
Personally, I never really had any issues getting more artifacts, since there are many ways to get more. You can simply ask cargo, in 80% of cases they just order me all the artifacts which are almost always available. If that doesn't work often I get them sent randomly by mining even without asking. If that doesn't work I can either go into the debris field or something to get them (although that feels a bit metagamey, so not cool on RP), or I can just walk around the station with the pinpointer the artlab gets and find artifacts that way.
Even if every way is a little bit chance based, many chance based things together (of which most are pretty likely) form a pretty robust system for getting more artifacts in my opinion.
And once you have some the ball kind of starts rolling and you get more and more from resupplies and events.